160 responses to Evangelicals questioning Cruz’s sincerity
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 07:13
“…he and his wife have tithed at least 10% every year…” Another word that’s consistently misused. To tithe means to give a tenth. Therefore, you can’t “tithe at least 10%.” If you mean “give” say “give.” Sorry, it’s the English major in me (a long time ago).
No, you actually have something to say. With losers like these phony holier-than-thou “Christians,” the only thing left to focus on is their lousy English. If they said something worth listening to, I would listen.
If it’s not your native language you have an excuse. I have heard some people say it’s the hardest language in the world to learn. Others say Chinese, but it doesn’t really matter. I wouldn’t do too well in most other languages except pig Latin.
I was a teacher for 20 years and had to lose my accent…a very thick ‘Yat’ accent, an accent that I rather liked and have been cultivating again since my retirement. LOL
I plan on never wearing pantyhose or high heels again, I plan on dressing like a bag lady and eschewing make up and hair dye…unless it is pink or blue maybe… I am gonna play video games all day and eat ice cream for breakfast, I am gonna smoke cigars and buy all my clothes at head shops hahaha!
It is funny how getting old makes you give less of a damn every day.
My wife was an English teacher (also, a long time ago) and would go bonkers listening to the evening news talking heads asking an on-scene reporter “Where are you at”.
I’m more religious than you! No, I’m
more religious than you! I give more money to the church than you! I
give more, I just don’t claim it my taxes because I’m pious! My
father is a minister! I am a minister! I read the bible daily! I
memorized the bible! The bible is personal!
We know where the word ‘Hypocrite’ comes from… it was a religious order that Jesus supposedly hated. But every republican can help breaking their neck to get into that particular order.
Well, for Cruz NOT to have given 10% of his income to an organization that follows (Hahahahahaaaaa) the teachings of a dead guy, and believes that they, and not the unwashed, will be taken up into His arms to watch the world suffer a millennium of torment for the crime of non-belief, would actually be a point in his favor, were I tempted to vote for the lying scumbag in the first place.
(But I DO believe Huckabee when he says he’s not a vegan…first true thing out of his mouth in ages.)
So mere mortals can build huge, gaudy, edifices in which they can worship him.
And the ministers need their mansions and private jets to insulate themselves from the unwashed masses.
I attended a church in a very poor rural area with a friend for a time, the pastor STOLE the building fund to pay for private christian school tuition for all 5 of his kids.
When he was caught, he said that the congregation could not possible want the pastor’s children to go to school with heathens and n*gg*rs could they?
NONE of the people who were putting the money in that offering plate could afford private school for their kids and several of them were black or had black family members!!!
To say they were outraged is an understatement, they ran him out of town on a rail. He left his poor uneducated wife, who had zero work experience, with 5 kids to raise alone.
BUT every church that I went with her to ended up having some such scandal so I finally told her that I would find something else to do on Sunday mornings.
We had a similar situation in N KY several years back. The pastor was living high on the hog and when a group of parishioners demanded an accounting he promptly excommunicated them.
Darn the map won’t load for me! I am going to have to look that up, I never heard that before but I am sure that it is a very widespread problem since many of the founders of well known religion were convicted conmen who just moved to another location and called their con a religion.
The Mormon one was convicted of using a scrying stone to pull a fortunetelling con before he used the stone in his hat when he was caught in bed with his neighbor’s wife.
The one for Jehovah’s Witness was convicted of selling ‘magic wheat’ before he moved away and made up his religious con.
The one who started Scientology was not a convicted conman but a conman none the less because he even admitted that he was just doing it for the money.
The list is very long, it goes back all the way to the first organized religion…where a group of wealthy businessmen got together and made up a religion to collect funds to bribe the king into destroying all the other temples in the kingdom. In those days before stores, all business was conducted in temples. They did it so they would have a monopoly in the marketplace and run all the pagans out of business.
That scam worked so well that it has been used as the template for almost every religion in the world, all 44,000+ of the current ones and and untold numbers of failed ones.
Because it is printed on the money….Duh….It has HIS name on every bill, and penny…all the money belongs to HIM….or his “Faithful Leaders”…this is evangelical logic…Ya know, a Lear Jet takes big money to support…and if God wanted us to fly, he would have given us all Lear Jets….
I probably give more to REAL charity, not the kickback schemes that most churches run, percentage wise than any of them and not a penny of it shows up on my income tax returns because it is not anyone’s goddamned business what I give or who I give it to!
I wish political and religious contributions weren’t deductible. Unless the church is running an actual charity that is open to all, like a food pantry or a shelter, it doesn’t even count as charity.
hahahaha yea, that is why this country has the most food insecurity in all of the civilized world. Somebody is lying here and I don’t think it is the statistics.
Every study ever done has come up with approximately the same numbers…churches on a whole give less than 2% to actual charity/poor people…churches are the worst of all tax deductions for charity because at least the scammers on the whole use up to 5% of donations on the charity they pretend to run.
Sadly churches are considered ‘charities’. They are not. A charity’s main goal is helping people. That is not a churches main goal.
When Mitt Romney says he gave 10% (or what ever it was) to charity, he means he gave that to his church-period, end of story.
It will never happen. Too many “Christians” won’t allow it. If the churches are taxed, that means the money they get from their pigeons isn’t deductible.
Unfortunately, to get the charlatans, all parts of the religious industry will have to be included. As a taxpayer, that’s not my fault, it is the way religion, specifically the fundamental christian sect has made a billion dollar business out of it.
ALL church property is tax exempt. If there is a tax on vehicles, churches are exempt. Parsonages are property tax exempt. parking lots-exempt. Separate school property-exempt.
There are thousands of articles about so called churches where everyone’s car and house are listed as church property to keep from paying taxes.
The Westboro Baptist church is basically one large family of lawyers who all live in a compound and register all of their property as belonging to the church so they don’t have to pay taxes.
I don’t what to say if you don’t think or can’t see that Ralph Reed, Tony Perkins, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker eic etc are all in it for big big money for themselves.
pastors have turned away long standing church members for not being able to give money. it’s their (pastors, preachers, whatever) bread and butter. asking your parishoners to give more because you need a jet is very suggestive that it’s for profit. spreading the good word should not be about getting rich, but you better believe a great deal of them do it just for that reason. every church is for profit.
Notice how they all say that? All those other greedy churches where the pastor is wearing a $5,000 suit and a Rolex are bad but theirs is special. It is estimated that less than 2% of all donations to churches actually make it to the poor but every church goer insists that their food bank is the only think sustaining thousands of people…how is that possible?
Many of the church run food banks and food pantries are for members of that church only. The riff raff of society will be ushered over to the city run pantries.
Every dollar that is not spent on the basics is profit…water, electricity, garbage pickup, etc….is deducted…I’m not against churches, mosques, or synagogues…I am about not letting these folks control our government…I want the WALL of separation….a BIG WALL….There are good arguments against the taxation, but is the danger to our nation worth it? Just like Wall Street and the Koch brothers who pay little or no taxes, they have the money to skew, corrupt, and purchase individuals, as well as, institutions….
There are almost 450,000 places of worship in the US and collectively they take in more than the GDP of most medium sized countries each year and the country gets nothing for it.
They are nothing more than social clubs built by and for their congregation’s fun and enjoyment. Every other venue for people’s fun and enjoyment is taxed, so why not churches?
Add in the ‘special’ subsidies and breaks churches get from local governments and they are doing pretty good overall. Churches get the lowest rates for water, sewer, electricity, and other utilities. They get special rates for mailings, phone, etc.. Some cities plow the snow on church parking lots for free. The parsonages are tax exempt also, in some cases several of them. A church builds a school, it’s off the property tax roll, a new house for the clergy (all of them) it’s off the property tax rolls. Churches often get ‘special deals’ on services and so forth that you or I would never get. Large breaks on a new roof for example that has to be made up by charging you and me more.
I cannot support eliminating the tax exempt status of religious institutions simply because we dislike the views and lifestyles of right wing politicians or preachers.
Such a move would destroy congregations of small non mainstream or non traditional religious groups such as the Universalist Unitarians in Modesto CA or Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco
I am perfectly happy that these groups are 100% tax exempt. If that enables some right wing hypocrite to point his fingers at us as he goes of for a fitting of his $1,000 suit, it is a small price to pay
In addition to two Sunday Celebrations, GLIDE Memorial Church offers a wide array of programs, including small groups and Bible studies, meditation and yoga, recovery circles, the GLIDE Pride Team, groups for lesbian, trans, gay, bi and queer individuals, teams devoted to social justice and racial justice and more. Whether your call is to sing in the GLIDE Ensemble, serve internationally with our Ray of Hope trip to Kenya, or walk the stories of the Bible in the Holy Land there is a place for you here at GLIDE. If you have an idea for a group you think would be a good fit here at GLIDE, let us know!
Absolutely. I would be shocked if any proof was brought forward that he has. Besides, he is too busy reading the bible. It’s the best book ever besides his “Art Of The Dill” as Palin said three times in her endorsement.
If he happens to be in a church for a funeral or something, I have no doubt that when the collection plate is passed around he stuffs his pockets with the money.
I am surprised had how many liberals AND conservatives want to end the separation of church and state. They go at it different ways but it’s the same call to end the wall.
But, liberals do want to end the non-profit status of churches. Obviously, these liberals are calling for the end of their non-political status as well.
I suspect that, for some, they are not thinking this through. They are just hostile to religion.
What are you talking about? Both point goes to the substance of these “tax churches!” calls.
Have you thought this issue through? Maybe my point is going over your head.
Think about it: If you take away the non-profit status of churches you also end their non-political status. This will have huge unintended consequences that perhaps you haven’t considered.
That argument falls flat.
Churches are totally political. They tell the people who to vote for from the pulpit. They pass out flyers and hold classes to educate their flocks on what they want done, which candidate (always GOP) supports it, and send them out to vote for them.
They are ALREADY doing it!!! Tens of thousands of preachers are telling their congregations who to vote for, collecting donations through strawman entities and openly running for public office!
There is nothing ‘non-political’ about churches in America.
Except none abide by their regulation for non-political status. What exactly do you think we’ll lose by taxing them – they’ll speak out politically? Please, they already do.
I’m sorry. Did you say liberals are “hostile to religion?” Really?
We just want to keep it out of our government as it was supposed to be. And we want organizations that call themselves churches to be scrutinized and taxed properly.
I read last year about a swing club that decided to call itself a “church” in order to pay no taxes. These mega churches are awash in cash and not held accountable. That is a problem.
Do you know why? It’s because RWNJ churches promote repubs big time. They give our Constitution the finger all the time. I say tax them. They are just the arm of the repub party.
I am one of those who want to tax the churches. Maybe if their tax dollars had to pay for all the fetuses they want carried to term, they’d think twice about terrorizing Planned Parenthood clinics.
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Also, all these soup kitchens and homeless shelters are subsidized by the government and manned by church volunteers, so churches aren’t out any money.
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And one more thing. Timothy Dolan, the cardinal in New York, lives in a $35 million dollar mansion, complete with butlers and maids, and owned by the Vatican. Do you know how many homeless and hungry children $35 million can feed?
Personally, I want to enforce the separation of church and state. That’s impossible when politicians go around claiming they are doing “gods” work or God is talking to them or constantly putting litmus tests on appointments and such. A persons religious views have nothing to do with running the Republic for “we the people”. That actually means for all of us.
But it has a lot to do with winning elections. While we do have Atheists in Congress, none will admit it. While the first five presidents were NOT christians (either was Lincoln) we don’t mention that at all.
What difference does it make? There isn’t a real follower of their Christ in the bunch. No one can claim to be a Christian yet preach and advocate nothing but hatred for what they perceive to be “others”.
First and foremost, I think it would be best to question a candidate’s SANITY more so than their sincerity. It’s a well documented fact that NUTZIES leaders are ‘loosened nuts on stripped bolts’ while being completely sincere.
as for Rafael’s documented ‘tithing’ record, perhaps he is like those among US who give freely without keeping records? I say check out the Canadian Cuban’s sanity and leave the sincerity stuff as a personal matter between him and his god.
Foreigners who would have access to buttons that ignite hydrogen bombs need to have a sane outlook on life in general (ie: knowing the difference between a little girl and a grown woman – also, it would be a great show of sanity by using one’s own given name instead of picking through a bunch of nicknames) … it’s the little things like knowing what nationality you are, that tend to send out signals.
But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, (Matthew 6:3) – Apparently this Biblical principle does not matter to these people that call themselves Christians…..sigh
The only three who should know you gave are you, the recipient and god. And if you don’t have a god and you give anonymously, you’re the only one who will know. That’s how it should work.
I agree 100%, giving something just to get something in return is odious and that is what putting charitable deductions on a tax form is in my opinion.
When I was a kid there was a rather racist term for that that involved Native Americans but I got the idea…you give because you want to, not because you are expecting anything n return.
I’m forever reading some Tea Partier proclaiming that it’s up to individuals and churches to help the needy, and not the government (“Why should we HAVE to help?”).
I’m sure if the IRS eliminated deductions for charitable contributions, and started taxing the churches as well, their tune would change (“Why should WE have to help?”).
Obviously as a civilized country (we are civilized, aren’t we?) we (the government, acting as the people) have to help those without the means to help themselves. Any additional help the more humane among us choose to give is even better. But if those of us who are against war still have to pay for bombers and tanks, those who have no empathy still have to pay for welfare. Taxes are not on the cafeteria plan.
Those teabaggers are a perfect example of how ignorant many folks are in our country. Not all folks go to church. The church should help folks yes, but not be the provider of social services for all.
The Mormon church is nothing but a money laundering scheme, the ones at the top of the food chain in that organization ‘tithe’ into the pot then take ‘loans’ to build office complexes and apartment buildings and shopping malls. Loans that do not have to be paid back because they call it charity!
Some seem to donate almost the exact amount as their ‘salary’ for ‘working’ for the church part time on projects that never actually do anything.
It is not even a secret, it has been reported over and over and over by many news outlets.
“To an Indian, the giving of gifts was an extension of this system of trade and a gift was expected to be reciprocated with something of equal value. Europeans, upon encountering this practice, misunderstood it, considering it uncouth and impolite. To them, trade was conducted with money and gifts were freely given with nothing expected in return. So this native practice got a bad reputation among the white colonists of North America and the term eventually became a playground insult.”
This definition stuck and the phrase “Indian giver” made its first appearance in linguist John Russell Barlett’s Dictionary of Americanisms in 1848.
You could say that a huge portion of self-proclaimed American “Christians” don’t actually follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
You could also say something about water being wet.
Considering the large amount of deductions, exclusions, exemptions, and set asides most organizations, corporations, and businesses get, I doubt that many churches would vanish due to taxation.
Based on my experience with the above two organizations, they may not disappear as I overzealously stated. But their ability to deliver many of the services they provide most certainly would disappear
Glide actually owns its building in downtown San Francisco. The property taxes alone on a several thousand square foot multi story building in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world would have a severe impact on the services they provide.
Do they use the whole building? If they rent out much of it, the rental income covers any property tax. If they use most of it for charity purposes, it’s exempt at the moment. I’m sure there would be some adjustment involved in some cases should religious organizations suddenly be taxes one way or another.
Like I said, no dedicated building is needed, you just find like minded business owners to let you use their building in off hours. Most schools rent out the gym for functions on the weekend, the same places that have space for rent for conventions or even the small ones where people hold Celtic Festivals and farmer’s markets on the weekend are fine places for gatherings.
Why let a building sit empty all week? That is a HUGE waste of resources, especially when most of the things you mentioned can be set up over the phone in someone’s house.
Wanting other people to pay for your entertainment is ridiculous.
No one’s religion is our government. It never was and never will be. If we get rid of the religious RWNJs in DC, then we can have the country the way the Founding Fathers laid it out to be. Here’s how it goes if you choose: Love God, follow your religion and leave the rest of us alone. That’s it. We are a much more diverse country now. The religious symbols that religious RWNJs want to keep up and displayed should never have been there in the first place. It’s another example of Americans not knowing our laws and how it all works.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 07:13
“…he and his wife have tithed at least 10% every year…” Another word that’s consistently misused. To tithe means to give a tenth. Therefore, you can’t “tithe at least 10%.” If you mean “give” say “give.” Sorry, it’s the English major in me (a long time ago).
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 07:51
My posts must drive you crazy.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 08:13
No, you actually have something to say. With losers like these phony holier-than-thou “Christians,” the only thing left to focus on is their lousy English. If they said something worth listening to, I would listen.
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 08:04
Glad they didn’t mention Cruz going to an ATM machine…
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 09:08
hehehe….English is a tough language to learn…I still haven’t learned much and what I have learned I butcher….
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:12
If it’s not your native language you have an excuse. I have heard some people say it’s the hardest language in the world to learn. Others say Chinese, but it doesn’t really matter. I wouldn’t do too well in most other languages except pig Latin.
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 09:23
sad fact is…I was bred, born and edumacated in the USofA….If I really buckle down, I can do it…but buckling down is no longer one of my concerns….
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 09:40
I was a teacher for 20 years and had to lose my accent…a very thick ‘Yat’ accent, an accent that I rather liked and have been cultivating again since my retirement. LOL
I plan on never wearing pantyhose or high heels again, I plan on dressing like a bag lady and eschewing make up and hair dye…unless it is pink or blue maybe… I am gonna play video games all day and eat ice cream for breakfast, I am gonna smoke cigars and buy all my clothes at head shops hahaha!
It is funny how getting old makes you give less of a damn every day.
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/Ran87dle/Old%20people/f5001.jpg
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:52
I had never heard of “Yat.” Looked it up, and found it’s from New Orleans.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 11:04
Yep, Da Who Dat!
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 09:56
hehehe….falling in love with a Bag Lady….there should be a song….
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 11:03
as long as I am the bag lady teeheehee
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/Ran87dle/Old%20people/yHoneyFlauntIt.gif
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 11:09
your ARE the BAG o’ my Heart…..
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 11:24
Oh my, I think I have a case of the vapors…Nah, that was just the smell of the dumpster hahaha
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q578/bazzarito/181054_325932964176261_927699987_n.jpg
TiredOldGuy49 January 21st, 2016 at 10:16
My wife was an English teacher (also, a long time ago) and would go bonkers listening to the evening news talking heads asking an on-scene reporter “Where are you at”.
cogitoergodavesum January 21st, 2016 at 14:05
I hope Huckabee is decimated by your comment.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 14:20
That’s the other ten-based word that’s most misused. But by now it has essentially lost its original meaning.
TiredOldGuy49 January 21st, 2016 at 07:24
I’m more religious than you! No, I’m
more religious than you! I give more money to the church than you! I
give more, I just don’t claim it my taxes because I’m pious! My
father is a minister! I am a minister! I read the bible daily! I
memorized the bible! The bible is personal!
Oh, grow the f*ck up people!
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 07:28
They obviously haven’t heard of the Pharisees.
TiredOldGuy49 January 21st, 2016 at 07:38
They’ve heard of them, it just doesn’t fit into their narrative.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 09:30
We know where the word ‘Hypocrite’ comes from… it was a religious order that Jesus supposedly hated. But every republican can help breaking their neck to get into that particular order.
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 07:41
Well, for Cruz NOT to have given 10% of his income to an organization that follows (Hahahahahaaaaa) the teachings of a dead guy, and believes that they, and not the unwashed, will be taken up into His arms to watch the world suffer a millennium of torment for the crime of non-belief, would actually be a point in his favor, were I tempted to vote for the lying scumbag in the first place.
(But I DO believe Huckabee when he says he’s not a vegan…first true thing out of his mouth in ages.)
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 07:50
Why does god need money?
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 08:03
Same reason he needs a starship…duh!
Obewon January 21st, 2016 at 09:17
Warp-factor evangelical grift. Engage! http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184143-nasa-unveils-its-futuristic-warp-drive-starship-called-enterprise-of-course
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 10:44
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn24/Quentin_Adam_Green/spock-headshot2_zpsf6shpgwh.jpg
TiredOldGuy49 January 21st, 2016 at 08:04
So mere mortals can build huge, gaudy, edifices in which they can worship him.
And the ministers need their mansions and private jets to insulate themselves from the unwashed masses.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 08:48
Which evangelical was it that said…god only talks to me on private jets, buy me one.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:13
Which one of the grifters said that?
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 09:28
All of them?
Obewon January 21st, 2016 at 09:15
Rich Televangelist: ‘God Only Talks To Me On Private Jets So Please Give Me Cash’-Kenneth Copeland! http://crooksandliars.com/2016/01/rich-televangelist-god-only-talks-me
Grifter Credo Dollar’s “prosperity ministry” described the $65 M+ luxury jet campaign as “standard operating procedure for people of faith” in “our community.”-His flock and their community are dirt poor. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-siebold/the-biggest-scam-of-all-p_b_7521170.html
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:15
He’s in a special class all by himself.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:18
They all seem the same…gimme gimme gimme
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 09:27
I attended a church in a very poor rural area with a friend for a time, the pastor STOLE the building fund to pay for private christian school tuition for all 5 of his kids.
When he was caught, he said that the congregation could not possible want the pastor’s children to go to school with heathens and n*gg*rs could they?
NONE of the people who were putting the money in that offering plate could afford private school for their kids and several of them were black or had black family members!!!
To say they were outraged is an understatement, they ran him out of town on a rail. He left his poor uneducated wife, who had zero work experience, with 5 kids to raise alone.
BUT every church that I went with her to ended up having some such scandal so I finally told her that I would find something else to do on Sunday mornings.
TiredOldGuy49 January 21st, 2016 at 10:09
We had a similar situation in N KY several years back. The pastor was living high on the hog and when a group of parishioners demanded an accounting he promptly excommunicated them.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:57
That sounds about right!
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:52
It even has it’s own classification.
It’s called ‘black collar crime’.
One example: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zaoTYFWC9bvM.kx5jOYLX4r4o&hl=en
CandideThirtythree January 22nd, 2016 at 02:48
Darn the map won’t load for me! I am going to have to look that up, I never heard that before but I am sure that it is a very widespread problem since many of the founders of well known religion were convicted conmen who just moved to another location and called their con a religion.
The Mormon one was convicted of using a scrying stone to pull a fortunetelling con before he used the stone in his hat when he was caught in bed with his neighbor’s wife.
The one for Jehovah’s Witness was convicted of selling ‘magic wheat’ before he moved away and made up his religious con.
The one who started Scientology was not a convicted conman but a conman none the less because he even admitted that he was just doing it for the money.
The list is very long, it goes back all the way to the first organized religion…where a group of wealthy businessmen got together and made up a religion to collect funds to bribe the king into destroying all the other temples in the kingdom. In those days before stores, all business was conducted in temples. They did it so they would have a monopoly in the marketplace and run all the pagans out of business.
That scam worked so well that it has been used as the template for almost every religion in the world, all 44,000+ of the current ones and and untold numbers of failed ones.
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 09:16
Because it is printed on the money….Duh….It has HIS name on every bill, and penny…all the money belongs to HIM….or his “Faithful Leaders”…this is evangelical logic…Ya know, a Lear Jet takes big money to support…and if God wanted us to fly, he would have given us all Lear Jets….
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:17
that made me smile.
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 09:19
ah…good…that made my day…..I try to make someone laugh or smile every day….
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:47
Lear jets are for peasants. Gulfstream or better is the jet of the day for fundamentalist preachers.
rg9rts January 21st, 2016 at 08:21
If anyone knows a con man they do
William January 21st, 2016 at 08:42
Thanks to insincere Christians like Ted. Evangelists will be forced to take public transportation.
I am outraged.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:14
But they will sit in the front, with the great unwashed behind a barrier. And they will have access to antibacterial wipes.
William January 21st, 2016 at 09:59
YEP.
whatthe46 January 21st, 2016 at 09:37
nice gig.
CandideThirtythree January 22nd, 2016 at 02:49
Why work when scamming rubes out of their hard earned money is so much easier?
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:46
And he’s only one of thousands of clergy living in luxury with a tax exempt mansion, private jets and limos, jewelry, furs and servants.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 09:14
I probably give more to REAL charity, not the kickback schemes that most churches run, percentage wise than any of them and not a penny of it shows up on my income tax returns because it is not anyone’s goddamned business what I give or who I give it to!
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:15
I wish political and religious contributions weren’t deductible. Unless the church is running an actual charity that is open to all, like a food pantry or a shelter, it doesn’t even count as charity.
Mensa Member January 21st, 2016 at 09:24
My church feeds tens of thousands of individuals and families every year. We ask nothing of the people who show up.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:25
In that case, I have no problem with a deductible contribution to support that. Not all churches are very Christian, though.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:17
hahahaha yea, that is why this country has the most food insecurity in all of the civilized world. Somebody is lying here and I don’t think it is the statistics.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:20
Every study ever done has come up with approximately the same numbers…churches on a whole give less than 2% to actual charity/poor people…churches are the worst of all tax deductions for charity because at least the scammers on the whole use up to 5% of donations on the charity they pretend to run.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:44
Sadly churches are considered ‘charities’. They are not. A charity’s main goal is helping people. That is not a churches main goal.
When Mitt Romney says he gave 10% (or what ever it was) to charity, he means he gave that to his church-period, end of story.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 13:36
And as far as I know, the Mormon church only helps other Mormons. That’s not a charity.
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 09:20
Can we just TAX them now?
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 09:22
It will never happen. Too many “Christians” won’t allow it. If the churches are taxed, that means the money they get from their pigeons isn’t deductible.
Mensa Member January 21st, 2016 at 09:24
What would you tax? My church makes no profit.
Foundryman January 21st, 2016 at 09:32
Could start with the private jets, the big houses and the cadillacs.
Mensa Member January 21st, 2016 at 09:35
My church has none of those.
Our clergy have houses and cars, which are taxed.
That’s the way it is with every church I’ve attended. I think one church had a dumpy old van.
Foundryman January 21st, 2016 at 09:40
Unfortunately, to get the charlatans, all parts of the religious industry will have to be included. As a taxpayer, that’s not my fault, it is the way religion, specifically the fundamental christian sect has made a billion dollar business out of it.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:40
And don’t doubt for a minute that it isn’t serous business.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:42
so your church means every church
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:15
I attended dozens of churches in my life time and there was ALWAYS a hand in the cookie jar!
Are you really one of the 17.6% of Americans who actually go to church on the regular?
If you are then you should have experienced more than a little of the scandals that plague places of worship.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:38
ALL church property is tax exempt. If there is a tax on vehicles, churches are exempt. Parsonages are property tax exempt. parking lots-exempt. Separate school property-exempt.
CandideThirtythree January 22nd, 2016 at 03:14
There are thousands of articles about so called churches where everyone’s car and house are listed as church property to keep from paying taxes.
The Westboro Baptist church is basically one large family of lawyers who all live in a compound and register all of their property as belonging to the church so they don’t have to pay taxes.
whatthe46 January 21st, 2016 at 09:35
since when?
Mensa Member January 21st, 2016 at 09:38
What do you know about churches? We don’t sell anything. There is literally no profit.
That’s why we have non-profit tax status.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:42
bwahahahah, that was one of the best jokes you have ever told.
Foundryman January 21st, 2016 at 09:43
I don’t what to say if you don’t think or can’t see that Ralph Reed, Tony Perkins, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker eic etc are all in it for big big money for themselves.
CandideThirtythree January 22nd, 2016 at 03:18
Speaking of Jim Bakker, have you seen what he is doing now? Selling Apocalypse food? It is too funny, sad but funny.
https://youtu.be/PwJaa-TFVSg
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:44
all you do is deflect and say my church….
whatthe46 January 21st, 2016 at 09:49
pastors have turned away long standing church members for not being able to give money. it’s their (pastors, preachers, whatever) bread and butter. asking your parishoners to give more because you need a jet is very suggestive that it’s for profit. spreading the good word should not be about getting rich, but you better believe a great deal of them do it just for that reason. every church is for profit.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:36
Every penny put in the collection plate is profit, preachers are just real estate agents selling plots in heaven.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:36
Imaginary plots to boot.
Bunya January 21st, 2016 at 13:44
Well, churches have no production costs. They sell fear and the threat of eternal damnation, and it doesn’t cost them a dime.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:53
dontcha know his church is special.
whatthe46 January 21st, 2016 at 10:06
i just found out. my bad. LOL
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 10:10
He is something, everytime a religous based article is posted he whines about being a victim and how his church is so great and diffrent. Pompous ass
whatthe46 January 21st, 2016 at 11:59
Lol
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:11
LOL
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:11
Notice how they all say that? All those other greedy churches where the pastor is wearing a $5,000 suit and a Rolex are bad but theirs is special. It is estimated that less than 2% of all donations to churches actually make it to the poor but every church goer insists that their food bank is the only think sustaining thousands of people…how is that possible?
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 10:14
Food banks where food is donated, the churches hoard their money.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:35
Many of the church run food banks and food pantries are for members of that church only. The riff raff of society will be ushered over to the city run pantries.
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 09:55
Every dollar that is not spent on the basics is profit…water, electricity, garbage pickup, etc….is deducted…I’m not against churches, mosques, or synagogues…I am about not letting these folks control our government…I want the WALL of separation….a BIG WALL….There are good arguments against the taxation, but is the danger to our nation worth it? Just like Wall Street and the Koch brothers who pay little or no taxes, they have the money to skew, corrupt, and purchase individuals, as well as, institutions….
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:07
There are almost 450,000 places of worship in the US and collectively they take in more than the GDP of most medium sized countries each year and the country gets nothing for it.
They are nothing more than social clubs built by and for their congregation’s fun and enjoyment. Every other venue for people’s fun and enjoyment is taxed, so why not churches?
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:33
Add in the ‘special’ subsidies and breaks churches get from local governments and they are doing pretty good overall. Churches get the lowest rates for water, sewer, electricity, and other utilities. They get special rates for mailings, phone, etc.. Some cities plow the snow on church parking lots for free. The parsonages are tax exempt also, in some cases several of them. A church builds a school, it’s off the property tax roll, a new house for the clergy (all of them) it’s off the property tax rolls. Churches often get ‘special deals’ on services and so forth that you or I would never get. Large breaks on a new roof for example that has to be made up by charging you and me more.
arc99 January 21st, 2016 at 11:49
I cannot support eliminating the tax exempt status of religious institutions simply because we dislike the views and lifestyles of right wing politicians or preachers.
Such a move would destroy congregations of small non mainstream or non traditional religious groups such as the Universalist Unitarians in Modesto CA or Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco
I am perfectly happy that these groups are 100% tax exempt. If that enables some right wing hypocrite to point his fingers at us as he goes of for a fitting of his $1,000 suit, it is a small price to pay
http://www.stanuu.org/20141208_hd.html
http://glide.org/church
In addition to two Sunday Celebrations, GLIDE Memorial Church offers a wide array of programs, including small groups and Bible studies, meditation and yoga, recovery circles, the GLIDE Pride Team, groups for lesbian, trans, gay, bi and queer individuals, teams devoted to social justice and racial justice and more. Whether your call is to sing in the GLIDE Ensemble, serve internationally with our Ray of Hope trip to Kenya, or walk the stories of the Bible in the Holy Land there is a place for you here at GLIDE. If you have an idea for a group you think would be a good fit here at GLIDE, let us know!
mistlesuede January 21st, 2016 at 09:31
Very recently there was a story here that exposed Trump for not contributing to his own charitable organization too. They are all alike.
whatthe46 January 21st, 2016 at 09:35
and you can bet tRump has never given a dime to any church.
mistlesuede January 21st, 2016 at 09:37
Absolutely. I would be shocked if any proof was brought forward that he has. Besides, he is too busy reading the bible. It’s the best book ever besides his “Art Of The Dill” as Palin said three times in her endorsement.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 09:44
hahaha “Art of the Dill” …so it was a cookbook?
mistlesuede January 21st, 2016 at 09:53
From the master chef of BS. They kept playing clips of her saying it on the Stephanie Miller show yesterday. I laughed so much yesterday morning.
Richard Banville January 21st, 2016 at 14:17
If he happens to be in a church for a funeral or something, I have no doubt that when the collection plate is passed around he stuffs his pockets with the money.
Mensa Member January 21st, 2016 at 09:39
I am surprised had how many liberals AND conservatives want to end the separation of church and state. They go at it different ways but it’s the same call to end the wall.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:41
both sides babble, liberals do not advocate for theocracy
Mensa Member January 21st, 2016 at 09:45
But, liberals do want to end the non-profit status of churches. Obviously, these liberals are calling for the end of their non-political status as well.
I suspect that, for some, they are not thinking this through. They are just hostile to religion.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:46
another pivot and deflection…again no substance
Mensa Member January 21st, 2016 at 09:50
What are you talking about? Both point goes to the substance of these “tax churches!” calls.
Have you thought this issue through? Maybe my point is going over your head.
Think about it: If you take away the non-profit status of churches you also end their non-political status. This will have huge unintended consequences that perhaps you haven’t considered.
But, alas, I have to get to work.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:51
babble and blather, no wonder you were kicked off charisma
whatthe46 January 21st, 2016 at 13:38
lol
Dirk Prophet January 21st, 2016 at 09:54
Their non-political status is a joke from UUs to Southern baptists.
mistlesuede January 21st, 2016 at 10:18
That argument falls flat.
Churches are totally political. They tell the people who to vote for from the pulpit. They pass out flyers and hold classes to educate their flocks on what they want done, which candidate (always GOP) supports it, and send them out to vote for them.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:34
They are ALREADY doing it!!! Tens of thousands of preachers are telling their congregations who to vote for, collecting donations through strawman entities and openly running for public office!
There is nothing ‘non-political’ about churches in America.
Carla Akins January 21st, 2016 at 13:33
Except none abide by their regulation for non-political status. What exactly do you think we’ll lose by taxing them – they’ll speak out politically? Please, they already do.
mistlesuede January 21st, 2016 at 10:14
I’m sorry. Did you say liberals are “hostile to religion?” Really?
We just want to keep it out of our government as it was supposed to be. And we want organizations that call themselves churches to be scrutinized and taxed properly.
I read last year about a swing club that decided to call itself a “church” in order to pay no taxes. These mega churches are awash in cash and not held accountable. That is a problem.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:18
They don’t even have to file reports.
DownriverDem January 21st, 2016 at 13:14
Do you know why? It’s because RWNJ churches promote repubs big time. They give our Constitution the finger all the time. I say tax them. They are just the arm of the repub party.
anothertoothpick January 21st, 2016 at 13:18
It’s the personal deduction that I am against. Make all the contributions you want but don’t look for the taxpayers to help you.
Bunya January 21st, 2016 at 13:39
I am one of those who want to tax the churches. Maybe if their tax dollars had to pay for all the fetuses they want carried to term, they’d think twice about terrorizing Planned Parenthood clinics.
.
Also, all these soup kitchens and homeless shelters are subsidized by the government and manned by church volunteers, so churches aren’t out any money.
.
And one more thing. Timothy Dolan, the cardinal in New York, lives in a $35 million dollar mansion, complete with butlers and maids, and owned by the Vatican. Do you know how many homeless and hungry children $35 million can feed?
Foundryman January 21st, 2016 at 09:55
Personally, I want to enforce the separation of church and state. That’s impossible when politicians go around claiming they are doing “gods” work or God is talking to them or constantly putting litmus tests on appointments and such. A persons religious views have nothing to do with running the Republic for “we the people”. That actually means for all of us.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:17
But it has a lot to do with winning elections. While we do have Atheists in Congress, none will admit it. While the first five presidents were NOT christians (either was Lincoln) we don’t mention that at all.
DownriverDem January 21st, 2016 at 13:12
Yes and thank the repubs for that religious test. It’s insane. As more old folks die, I think things will be better.
DownriverDem January 21st, 2016 at 13:11
Please explain. I have never heard a liberal say they want to end the separation of church and state. Prove it.
LoisB January 21st, 2016 at 09:51
What difference does it make? There isn’t a real follower of their Christ in the bunch. No one can claim to be a Christian yet preach and advocate nothing but hatred for what they perceive to be “others”.
tracey marie January 21st, 2016 at 09:52
very good.
LoisB January 21st, 2016 at 09:57
Why, thank you.
Sam January 21st, 2016 at 10:19
regardless of what they actually believe or who they really are
they vote and that’s the difference
LoisB January 21st, 2016 at 11:16
True. I meant what difference does it make if Cruz gave 1% or 10%.
Buford2k11 January 21st, 2016 at 11:17
9%? jest doing the math…
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 11:28
Emphasis on the “jest.”
granpa.usthai January 21st, 2016 at 10:12
First and foremost, I think it would be best to question a candidate’s SANITY more so than their sincerity. It’s a well documented fact that NUTZIES leaders are ‘loosened nuts on stripped bolts’ while being completely sincere.
as for Rafael’s documented ‘tithing’ record, perhaps he is like those among US who give freely without keeping records? I say check out the Canadian Cuban’s sanity and leave the sincerity stuff as a personal matter between him and his god.
Foreigners who would have access to buttons that ignite hydrogen bombs need to have a sane outlook on life in general (ie: knowing the difference between a little girl and a grown woman – also, it would be a great show of sanity by using one’s own given name instead of picking through a bunch of nicknames) … it’s the little things like knowing what nationality you are, that tend to send out signals.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:15
But ‘Rafael’ sounds so ‘foreign’, doesn’t it?
Leannie January 21st, 2016 at 10:14
But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, (Matthew 6:3) – Apparently this Biblical principle does not matter to these people that call themselves Christians…..sigh
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 10:17
The only three who should know you gave are you, the recipient and god. And if you don’t have a god and you give anonymously, you’re the only one who will know. That’s how it should work.
Candide Thirtythree January 21st, 2016 at 10:28
I agree 100%, giving something just to get something in return is odious and that is what putting charitable deductions on a tax form is in my opinion.
When I was a kid there was a rather racist term for that that involved Native Americans but I got the idea…you give because you want to, not because you are expecting anything n return.
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 10:50
Unfortunately several studies have shown that charitable giving decreases severely when the deduction is eliminated.
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 11:00
I’m forever reading some Tea Partier proclaiming that it’s up to individuals and churches to help the needy, and not the government (“Why should we HAVE to help?”).
I’m sure if the IRS eliminated deductions for charitable contributions, and started taxing the churches as well, their tune would change (“Why should WE have to help?”).
Larry Schmitt January 21st, 2016 at 11:20
Obviously as a civilized country (we are civilized, aren’t we?) we (the government, acting as the people) have to help those without the means to help themselves. Any additional help the more humane among us choose to give is even better. But if those of us who are against war still have to pay for bombers and tanks, those who have no empathy still have to pay for welfare. Taxes are not on the cafeteria plan.
DownriverDem January 21st, 2016 at 13:09
Those teabaggers are a perfect example of how ignorant many folks are in our country. Not all folks go to church. The church should help folks yes, but not be the provider of social services for all.
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 16:21
And I’m all for giving churches tax exemptions…as long as they STAY THE #$%@ OUT OF POLITICS!
CandideThirtythree January 22nd, 2016 at 03:36
It is because of the kickbacks.
The Mormon church is nothing but a money laundering scheme, the ones at the top of the food chain in that organization ‘tithe’ into the pot then take ‘loans’ to build office complexes and apartment buildings and shopping malls. Loans that do not have to be paid back because they call it charity!
Some seem to donate almost the exact amount as their ‘salary’ for ‘working’ for the church part time on projects that never actually do anything.
It is not even a secret, it has been reported over and over and over by many news outlets.
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-karger/let-the-money-laundering_b_259953.html
http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.com/2013/09/more-good-is-more-lds-foundation.html
FatRat January 21st, 2016 at 17:15
Indian Giver is actually a friendly barter that the other side didn’t quite comprehend. People are still confused about it to this very day.
http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/09/02/217295339/the-history-behind-the-phrase-dont-be-an-indian-giver
“To an Indian, the giving of gifts was an extension of this system of trade and a gift was expected to be reciprocated with something of equal value. Europeans, upon encountering this practice, misunderstood it, considering it uncouth and impolite. To them, trade was conducted with money and gifts were freely given with nothing expected in return. So this native practice got a bad reputation among the white colonists of North America and the term eventually became a playground insult.”
This definition stuck and the phrase “Indian giver” made its first appearance in linguist John Russell Barlett’s Dictionary of Americanisms in 1848.
Candide Thirtythree January 22nd, 2016 at 02:29
Yep, that was the one I was talking about…of course I am old but I did hear it a little later than 1848 hahaha
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 10:49
You could say that a huge portion of self-proclaimed American “Christians” don’t actually follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
You could also say something about water being wet.
Böcker January 21st, 2016 at 10:43
Those on the right should be running for Commander in Chief not paster in chief.
Richard Banville January 21st, 2016 at 14:09
Though they would be useless as Commander-in-Chief as well. Scary to think of any of these rabid bloodthirsty clowns with their finger on the Button.
Tim Coolio January 21st, 2016 at 17:45
They would bring us the end times.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 12:28
Considering the large amount of deductions, exclusions, exemptions, and set asides most organizations, corporations, and businesses get, I doubt that many churches would vanish due to taxation.
arc99 January 21st, 2016 at 14:46
Based on my experience with the above two organizations, they may not disappear as I overzealously stated. But their ability to deliver many of the services they provide most certainly would disappear
Glide actually owns its building in downtown San Francisco. The property taxes alone on a several thousand square foot multi story building in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world would have a severe impact on the services they provide.
Dwendt44 January 21st, 2016 at 14:54
Do they use the whole building? If they rent out much of it, the rental income covers any property tax. If they use most of it for charity purposes, it’s exempt at the moment. I’m sure there would be some adjustment involved in some cases should religious organizations suddenly be taxes one way or another.
CandideThirtythree January 22nd, 2016 at 03:10
Like I said, no dedicated building is needed, you just find like minded business owners to let you use their building in off hours. Most schools rent out the gym for functions on the weekend, the same places that have space for rent for conventions or even the small ones where people hold Celtic Festivals and farmer’s markets on the weekend are fine places for gatherings.
Why let a building sit empty all week? That is a HUGE waste of resources, especially when most of the things you mentioned can be set up over the phone in someone’s house.
Wanting other people to pay for your entertainment is ridiculous.
StoneyCurtisll January 21st, 2016 at 12:41
The bottom line is….
It’s all about the money…(religion and politics)
DownriverDem January 21st, 2016 at 13:06
No one’s religion is our government. It never was and never will be. If we get rid of the religious RWNJs in DC, then we can have the country the way the Founding Fathers laid it out to be. Here’s how it goes if you choose: Love God, follow your religion and leave the rest of us alone. That’s it. We are a much more diverse country now. The religious symbols that religious RWNJs want to keep up and displayed should never have been there in the first place. It’s another example of Americans not knowing our laws and how it all works.
anothertoothpick January 21st, 2016 at 13:28
Charlie Hebdo cartoonist says keep your prayers…it is religion that got us into this in the first place.
StoneyCurtisll January 21st, 2016 at 13:51
The last two things in the world I care about are Ted Cruz..
And what delusional evangelicals think/care about..
Gina Bousquet January 21st, 2016 at 15:09
They finally got his staged faith!
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 16:16
He’ll ask for forgiveness, though, and they’ll lap it up.
Gina Bousquet January 21st, 2016 at 17:12
Might as well… :)
Hirightnow January 21st, 2016 at 17:25
“I have sinnnnned…by youuuuuuu…”-Jerry Falwell
Gina Bousquet January 21st, 2016 at 17:37
:)