Obeidallah: No Such Thing As ‘Radical Islam’
How many Muslims does ISIS have to slaughter before people will stop calling the group “Islamic” anything? Seriously, can someone please tell me the number of innocent Muslim men, women, and children who have to die at the hands of ISIS before people will realize that ISIS is truly unIslamic and arguably anti-Islamic?…To be honest, how many have heard about the details of ISIS slaughtering of Muslims? In 2014 in Iraq alone, can you guess how many Muslims civilians—not fighters, civilians—ISIS killed? At least 4,325. ISIS is murdering an average 12 Muslim civilian men, women, and children every single day…
ISIS is not about the tenets of Islam. Their religion is power.
Those aren’t just my words. In September, more than 120 Islamic scholars and clerics wrote a letter to ISIS in both English and Arabic denouncing ISIS and its invoking of Islam to justify its horrific actions. They even explained in great detail how ISIS is violating the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, concluding that ISIS is truly unIslamic…
… there’s no such thing as “radical Islam.” There is only one Islam. But there are radical Muslims. And there are Muslims who engage in terrorist acts. They are called terrorists. That is the proper way to describe them.
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183 responses to Obeidallah: No Such Thing As ‘Radical Islam’
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William February 7th, 2015 at 14:02
It is an interesting point.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 16:13
Lets not forget that Germany and all of Europe were ‘Christian’ countries during the time of the holocaust..
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 19:07
All of Europe was not with Hitler, was fighting him one way or another with little exception.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:22
I didn’t mention “hitler”…
Are you suggesting that antisemitism only came about around the times of nazism?
European antisemitism predates ‘hitler’ by nearly a 1,000 years
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:19
It doesn’t count if a Christian fought the Nazis or if they died in the death camps.
You have to keep in mind the agenda here.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:17
They were also countries in the northern hemisphere.
Ever notice that?
The greatest killers of all time all were in the northern hemisphere.
They were also nearly all white.
Nope, doesn’t work.
Can’t blame the Christians thataway, and after all, that’s the goal, isn’t it?
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 10:59
Well…
90% of the worlds population does live in the northern hemisphere…
And I do not specifically blame “christians”..
It is religion as a whole, (all of them) that I blame for mass killings and genocide.
Because all of them are complicit, and non are innocent.
John Tarter February 7th, 2015 at 18:41
For goodness sakes, the terrorists call themselves “Islamic”, but we can’t?
John Tarter February 7th, 2015 at 18:41
For goodness sakes, the terrorists call themselves “Islamic”, but we can’t?
arc99 February 7th, 2015 at 19:15
The Ku Klux Klan refers to itself as a “Christian” organization. May we presume that from now on, you have no objection if every reference to the Klan is prefaced by the word “Christian”?
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:34
That is the second stupidest comment I have seen today…
You are going to have to try harder to beat your earlier comment.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:56
I feel dirty just posting this…
But even the nazis called themselves ‘christian’..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg/800px-Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
William February 8th, 2015 at 08:58
For goodness sakes, KKK members call themselves Baptists, why can’t we?
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 18:34
It will give the opportunity to use them and Martin Luther King in the same sentence
Therein lies the answer to Mr. Tarter. It is common for groups to give themselves names that have a certain meaning that does not reflect the truth.
See the German Democratic Republic….
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:12
Not so sure it is true.
My memory is a tad fuzzy, but I seem to recall Churchill refer to the bombing of cities as “terrorism.”
I seem to recall the V-1 and V-2 being referred to as “terror weapons,” too.
This is why I seldom go to the net for facts, especially if it is something I haven’t read significant amounts of history on.
William February 8th, 2015 at 08:54
The V-1 “buzzbomb” was known as the Vergeltungswaffe, translation: retaliation weapon. The V-2, Vergeltungswaffe 2 , Retribution weapon 2 . Churchill considered using biological weapons in response. I believe the term “terror weapon” was initially used by the press, but can’t verify.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 21:53
Yeah, one of them, possible the V-2, was called a “doodlebug,” I think…….reaching back, I also have a somewhat vague memory of reading somewhere that the American revolutionaries were called terrorists by the redcoats.
William February 8th, 2015 at 22:10
the doodlebug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb
The spitfire flat out could shoot it down.
William February 8th, 2015 at 22:37
Thankfully the USA was able to spirit away the genius behind the V-2 project. Had the Russians gotten to him first, they would have likely won the so called space race. Ironically the father of our ICBM program was a former Nazi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 23:05
I agree. There was quite a rush at the end of the war by both the Soviets, U.S. and Britain to round up as many engineers, aircraft designers and scientists.
I have the impression that when we got Von Braun and the others, our rocket program took on a whole new direction and this gives rise to a question for further research in terms of whether the Soviets penetrated our rocket program.
They got our jet technology through a bunch of spies so we got a nasty shock at the beginning of the Korean War because they had better fighter planes than we did. We rushed the F-86 over there and it was somewhat even, but those damned spies got a lot of Americans killed or condemned to brutal NoKo prison camps…
William February 8th, 2015 at 23:22
The argument over the jet technology is conjecture. I think ours were better than theirs. Engine changes in early soviet fighters with ten and twelve hours was not uncommon. Sometimes newer isn’t better. The Navy F-4 phantom had a tough time going head to head with older Migs. The (Navy) F-4 didn’t even have a gun. Shooting down a subsonic mig with a system designed for supersonic interception was a challenge.
Consider this.
When the A-10 warthog contract was awarded, it was actually in competition with the piper “Enforcer” This was essentially a WWII mustang with a turbo-prop engine swinging a cut down sky raider prop. They were actually still testing this thing in the 80’s
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/piper_pa-48.php
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 23:42
I am familiar with the problems the F-4 had with much older MiGs. Much of the problem was that aerial combat was usually done at subsonic speeds and maneuverability was important. Have you read the biography of Boyd?
There is no conjecture in terms of what the Soviets stole from us in terms of jet technology in the 40s. I have a fairly extensive database built up from my research into espionage and can name some of the spies they had.
I’m going to be logging off soon, but will try to remember to post some more info on it here. This is not a matter of mere suspicion, but there is confirmation of their spying in the Venona decrypts, the Mitrokhin archives and the “Ritz-kidney” files, all of which I have spent a lot of time with.
One name that comes right to mind is Steve Nelson, who was a CPUSA official and was a contact for Soviet espionage on the West Coast.
Hold on, I’ll edit in some info in this post tomorrow…
William February 9th, 2015 at 00:47
I’m very familiar with the subject. In some ways the Soviets habit of copying our technology was a bonus. In many cases they didn’t even try to hide the copying. IE the B-29 copied bolt by bolt. Reverse engineering can however be frustrating.
They copied the P-3, but hadn’t figured out the wet wing yet, or synchronized fore and aft radar so they had a maritime patrol aircraft (NATO code May) with a 400 mile range, and one big ass chin radome. The funniest debacle I think was their efforts at copying the FB-111. They actually had more problems with it than we did.
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 19:37
Heh heh heh, hadn’t heard that one about the FB-111, but it sure makes sense and sounds like an amusing story I’d like to have the details of. I knew a Navy photographer who took pictures of the one time they flew one of those things off a carrier.
I have read of other things they copied that included errors or unusual features.
I’ve seen a picture of their copy of the B-29 (my father was a flight engineer on them and collected air samples following Soviet nuke tests, ferried planes for the Berlin airlift and flew during the Korean War).
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 18:56
The following were involved with Soviet espionage that targeted advanced American aircraft in the 1940s:
Amadeo Sabatini, CPUSA member, employee of Bohn Aluminum and Brass Co. in Los Angeles. Sabatini was a courier for KGB officer Grigori Kheifets, who served under cover as the vice consul at the Soviet consulate in San Francisco from 1941 to July 1944.
Jones Orin iYork. Aircraft engineer at Douglas Aircraft in El Segundo, Cal. York supplied intelligence to the Soviets from 1935 until late 1943. Among the intelligence he provided was photos of documents concerning the Northrop Aircraft P-61 night fighter, and the design and engine for the XP-58. His couriers included Amadeo Sabatini, Emanuel Locke and William Weisband.
William Weisband, Russian linguist at the U.S. Army Signals Security Agency and the Army Security Agency. Weisband was a Soviet agent from the 1934 to 1950. He was a courier who received photos from Jones O. York. Weisband disclosed American breakthroughs in attacking Soviet ciphers. Weisband’s link to Soviet intelligence was Lona Cohen, whose KGB case officers in America included Semyon Semyonov and Anatoly Yatskov.
William Perl, U.S. government aeronautical scientist. Perl gave the KGB test results and design experiments on jet engines and aircraft, including a long distance fighter under development by Vultee Aircraft, a jet prototype, and jet engine development at Westinghouse in May 1944. In nd jet engine development at Westinghousevelopment by Vultee Aircraft and a jet prototype in May 1944 1948 Perl gave the Soviets intelligence on jet turbine-powered helicopters and wind tunnel tests on advanced high performance aircraft, their engines and airfoil designs. Perl worked with Julius Rosenberg’s network. His couriers included Michael and Ann Sidorovich.
Victor Perlo, He ran a network of at least 13 agents at the War Production Board and had other agents in the government including Donald Wheeler at the OSS. His courier to KGB officers Ishkak Akhmerov, Jacob Golos was Elizabeth Bentley. Perlo provided intelligence on aircraft production, shipments to the front and jet engine problems.
Andrey Ivanovich Shevchenko, KGB officer trained in aircraft engineering. Shevchenko operated under cover as an official of the Soviet Government Purchasing Commission from mid-1942 to early 1946. In New York, Shevchenko recruited Joseph & Leona Franey, Loren Haas, Aleksandr Petroff, William Pinsly, William Plourde, and unidentified agents operating under the cover names of ARMOR, BUGLE, SPLINT, and an individual whose first initial was B.
Michael K. Cham, Soviet agent in New York who provided intelligence on the aircraft industry to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko until and probably beyond October 1944.
Joseph.& Leona Franey, Leona was the head librarian at Bell
Aircraft, Joseph was an employee in the rubber section of Hooker Electro-Chemical. They were recruited by KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko and were turned by the FBI in August 1944. Leona gave Shevchenko photos of blueprints for the Bell P-59 jet, jet engine design and issues involved in the design of swept back wings. This intelligence had been sanitized by the FBI. In June 1949 the Franeys testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee about Soviet espionage that targeted jet propulsion.
Loren Haas, Bell Aircraft engineer recruited by KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko and turned by the FBI. Haas gave Shevchenko photos of a jet engine being developed in late 1944. The photos had been sanitized by the FBI. After leaving Bell in 1945, Haas went to work for Westinghouse and gave Shevchenko photos of jet engine designs that had been sanitized by the FBI.
Aleksandr Petroff, Curtis-Wright Aircraft Corp. employee who gave KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko intelligence on aircraft production methods.
William Pinsly, Curtis-Wright Aircraft Corp. employee, agent of KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko.
William Plourde, Bell Aircraft engineer who gave intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko in 1944.
Harold Smelzer, Bell Aircraft employee who provided intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko.
BROTHER, THOMAS, cover names of an unidentified Soviet agent in New York who provided intelligence on technical and scientific intelligence that may have included aircraft technology. BROTHER, THOMAS may be William Plourde.
BUGLE, cover name of an unidentified Soviet agent in New York who provided aircraft intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko. Bugle may be Joseph Bauer.
SPLINT, cover name of an unidentified Soviet agent in New York who provided aircraft intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko.
B. first initial of a KGB agent who worked at Republic Aviation and gave intelligence on U.S. research on the American version of the V-1.
EMULSION, SIGNAL, cover names of an unidentified Soviet agent who worked as a Soviet agent at Eastman Kodak in 1938 and provided intelligence in 1943 and 1944 on the military aircraft INDUSTRY.
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 19:20
William, information in my post, below, on Soviet acquisition of our jet technology comes primarily from the Vassiliev notebooks, the Mitrokhin archives, Venona decrypts and the “ritz-kidney” records. So things are confirmed from both sides. On ours, FBI investigations and intelligence operations that include decryption of Soviet message traffic and on the Soviet side from the records of their intelligence services.
Thus we read:
“William Perl, a brilliant young government aeronautical scientist, provided the Soviets with the results of the highly secret tests and design experiments for American jet engines and jet aircraft. His betrayal assisted the Soviet Union in quickly overcoming the American technological lead in the development of jets. In the Korean War, U.S. military leaders expected the Air Force to dominate the skies, on the assumption that the Soviet aircraft used by North Korea and Communist China would be no match for American aircraft. They were shocked when Soviet MiG-15 jet fighters not only flew rings around U.S. propeller-driven aircraft but were conspicuously superior to the first generation of American jets as well. Only the hurried deployment of America’s newest jet fighter, the F-86 Saber, allowed the United States to match the technological capabilities of the MiG-15. The Air Force prevailed, owing more to the skill of American pilots than to the design of American aircraft.”
– VENONA Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr (Yale University Press, 1999), page 10
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 11:27
I wonder how Churchill felt about the fire bombing of Tokyo, Yokohama, Kobe and scores of other cities in Japan that killed 100’s of thousands more than both atomic bombs combined.
Or even closer to Britain, the bombings of German cities like Dresden, Hamburg, Braunschweig and nearly every city with a major population..
I think we can both agree that war it’s self is an act of terrorism..;)
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 23:19
Starting from the end, yeah, war has a lot of terror in it, and one wants to instill terror in the enemy to erode their will to fight.
During our Civil War, after major battles it was so awful that often thousands of troops from either side would flee the battlefield.
Within about a 10-mile radius of where I type this from, 100,000 men died during that war.
Since the bombing of cities was started by the Germans against the Brits and payback of a similar sort was thought acceptable, I doubt Churchill batted an eye at the firebombings in Japan. After all, the Allies did the same to many German cities, as you said.
I am typing this in Fredericksburg, Va., the site of some mighty nasty urban fighting. In December 1862 the Federal forces lined Chatham Heights across the river with cannons and they opened fire on the town, destroying large sections of it. They were seldom aiming at any military targets.
I had the pleasure to work on a house used as a field hospital at that time. The homeowner had a letter from a soldier who was in a cot on the second floor recuperating from his wounds. In the letter, he described a cannon ball coming through the front wall, passing over his bed, hitting the chimney, bouncing off and then went down the stairs where it went through the panel door on the first floor.
Another giuy and I removed drywall to reveal the old plaster wall and there was a bunch of graffitii from 1862 on it. We got the chimney uncovered and could see where that cannon ball had hit and yep – you guessed it – they still had the same door at the foot of the stairs and with the paint stripped off the repair where the cannon ball had gone through was evident.
William February 7th, 2015 at 15:02
It is an interesting point.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 17:13
Lets not forget that Germany and all of Europe were ‘Christian’ countries during the time of the holocaust..
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 20:07
All of Europe was not with Hitler, was fighting him one way or another with little exception.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:22
I didn’t mention “hitler”…
Are you suggesting that antisemitism only came about around the times of nazism?
European antisemitism predates ‘hitler’ by nearly a 1,000 years
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 03:19
It doesn’t count if a Christian fought the Nazis or if they died in the death camps.
You have to keep in mind the agenda here.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 03:17
They were also countries in the northern hemisphere.
Ever notice that?
The greatest killers of all time all were in the northern hemisphere.
They were also nearly all white.
Nope, doesn’t work.
Can’t blame the Christians thataway, and after all, that’s the goal, isn’t it?
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 11:59
Well…
90% of the worlds population does live in the northern hemisphere…
And I do not specifically blame “christians”..
It is religion as a whole, (all of them) that I blame for mass killings and genocide.
Because all of them are complicit, and non are innocent.
John Tarter February 7th, 2015 at 19:41
For goodness sakes, the terrorists call themselves “Islamic”, but we can’t?
arc99 February 7th, 2015 at 20:15
The Ku Klux Klan refers to itself as a “Christian” organization. May we presume that from now on, you have no objection if every reference to the Klan is prefaced by the word “Christian”?
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:34
That is the second stupidest comment I have seen today…
You are going to have to try harder to beat your earlier comment.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:56
I feel dirty just posting this…
But even the nazis called themselves ‘christian’..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg/800px-Deutsche_Christen_Flagge.svg.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
William February 8th, 2015 at 09:58
For goodness sakes, KKK members call themselves Baptists, why can’t we?
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 19:34
It will give the opportunity to use them and Martin Luther King in the same sentence
Therein lies the answer to Mr. Tarter. It is common for groups to give themselves names that have a certain meaning that does not reflect the truth.
See the German Democratic Republic….
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 03:12
Not so sure it is true.
My memory is a tad fuzzy, but I seem to recall Churchill refer to the bombing of cities as “terrorism.”
I seem to recall the V-1 and V-2 being referred to as “terror weapons,” too.
This is why I seldom go to the net for facts, especially if it is something I haven’t read significant amounts of history on.
William February 8th, 2015 at 09:54
The V-1 “buzzbomb” was known as the Vergeltungswaffe, translation: retaliation weapon. The V-2, Vergeltungswaffe 2 , Retribution weapon 2 . Churchill considered using biological weapons in response. I believe the term “terror weapon” was initially used by the press, but can’t verify.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 22:53
Yeah, one of them, possible the V-2, was called a “doodlebug,” I think…….reaching back, I also have a somewhat vague memory of reading somewhere that the American revolutionaries were called terrorists by the redcoats.
William February 8th, 2015 at 23:10
the doodlebug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb
The spitfire flat out could shoot it down.
William February 8th, 2015 at 23:37
Thankfully the USA was able to spirit away the genius behind the V-2 project. Had the Russians gotten to him first, they would have likely won the so called space race. Ironically the father of our ICBM program was a former Nazi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 00:05
I agree. There was quite a rush at the end of the war by both the Soviets, U.S. and Britain to round up as many engineers, aircraft designers and scientists.
I have the impression that when we got Von Braun and the others, our rocket program took on a whole new direction and this gives rise to a question for further research in terms of whether the Soviets penetrated our rocket program.
They got our jet technology through a bunch of spies so we got a nasty shock at the beginning of the Korean War because they had better fighter planes than we did. We rushed the F-86 over there and it was somewhat even, but those damned spies got a lot of Americans killed or condemned to brutal NoKo prison camps…
William February 9th, 2015 at 00:22
The argument over the jet technology is conjecture. I think ours were better than theirs. Engine changes in early soviet fighters with ten and twelve hours was not uncommon. Sometimes newer isn’t better. The Navy F-4 phantom had a tough time going head to head with older Migs. The (Navy) F-4 didn’t even have a gun. Shooting down a subsonic mig with a system designed for supersonic interception was a challenge.
Consider this.
When the A-10 warthog contract was awarded, it was actually in competition with the piper “Enforcer” This was essentially a WWII mustang with a turbo-prop engine swinging a cut down sky raider prop. They were actually still testing this thing in the 80’s
http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/piper_pa-48.php
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 00:42
I am familiar with the problems the F-4 had with much older MiGs. Much of the problem was that aerial combat was usually done at subsonic speeds and maneuverability was important. Have you read the biography of Boyd?
There is no conjecture in terms of what the Soviets stole from us in terms of jet technology in the 40s. I have a fairly extensive database built up from my research into espionage and can name some of the spies they had.
I’m going to be logging off soon, but will try to remember to post some more info on it here. This is not a matter of mere suspicion, but there is confirmation of their spying in the Venona decrypts, the Mitrokhin archives and the “Ritz-kidney” files, all of which I have spent a lot of time with.
One name that comes right to mind is Steve Nelson, who was a CPUSA official and was a contact for Soviet espionage on the West Coast.
EDIT: Steve Nelson was certainly in the middle of Soviet espionage on the West Coast, but after checking my notes it does not appear that he had a role in espionage targeting our jet technology.
William February 9th, 2015 at 01:47
I’m very familiar with the subject. In some ways the Soviets habit of copying our technology was a bonus. In many cases they didn’t even try to hide the copying. IE the B-29 copied bolt by bolt. Reverse engineering can however be frustrating.
They copied the P-3, but hadn’t figured out the wet wing yet, or synchronized fore and aft radar so they had a maritime patrol aircraft (NATO code May) with a 400 mile range, and one big ass chin radome. The funniest debacle I think was their efforts at copying the FB-111. They actually had more problems with it than we did.
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 20:37
Heh heh heh, hadn’t heard that one about the FB-111, but it sure makes sense and sounds like an amusing story I’d like to have the details of. I knew a Navy photographer who took pictures of the one time they flew one of those things off a carrier.
I have read of other things they copied that included errors or unusual features.
I’ve seen a picture of their copy of the B-29 (my father was a flight engineer on them and collected air samples following Soviet nuke tests, ferried planes for the Berlin airlift and flew during the Korean War).
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 19:56
The following were involved with Soviet espionage that targeted advanced American aircraft in the 1940s:
Amadeo Sabatini, CPUSA member, employee of Bohn Aluminum and Brass Co. in Los Angeles. Sabatini was a courier for KGB officer Grigori Kheifets, who served under cover as the vice consul at the Soviet consulate in San Francisco from 1941 to July 1944.
Jones Orin York. Aircraft engineer at Douglas Aircraft in El Segundo, Cal. York supplied intelligence to the Soviets from 1935 until late 1943. Among the intelligence he provided was photos of documents concerning the Northrop Aircraft P-61 night fighter, and the design and engine for the XP-58. His couriers included Amadeo Sabatini, Emanuel Locke and William Weisband.
William Weisband, Russian linguist at the U.S. Army Signals Security Agency and the Army Security Agency. Weisband was a Soviet agent from the 1934 to 1950. He was a courier who received photos from Jones O. York. Weisband disclosed American breakthroughs in attacking Soviet ciphers. Weisband’s link to Soviet intelligence was Lona Cohen, whose KGB case officers in America included Semyon Semyonov and Anatoly Yatskov.
William Perl, U.S. government aeronautical scientist. Perl gave the KGB test results and design experiments on jet engines and aircraft, including a long distance fighter under development by Vultee Aircraft, a jet prototype, and jet engine development at Westinghouse in May 1944. In nd jet engine development at Westinghousevelopment by Vultee Aircraft and a jet prototype in May 1944 1948 Perl gave the Soviets intelligence on jet turbine-powered helicopters and wind tunnel tests on advanced high performance aircraft, their engines and airfoil designs. Perl worked with Julius Rosenberg’s network. His couriers included Michael and Ann Sidorovich.
Victor Perlo, He ran a network of at least 13 agents at the War Production Board and had other agents in the government including Donald Wheeler at the OSS. His courier to KGB officers Ishkak Akhmerov, Jacob Golos was Elizabeth Bentley. Perlo provided intelligence on aircraft production, shipments to the front and jet engine problems.
Andrey Ivanovich Shevchenko, KGB officer trained in aircraft engineering. Shevchenko operated under cover as an official of the Soviet Government Purchasing Commission from mid-1942 to early 1946. In New York, Shevchenko recruited Joseph & Leona Franey, Loren Haas, Aleksandr Petroff, William Pinsly, William Plourde, and unidentified agents operating under the cover names of ARMOR, BUGLE, SPLINT, and an individual whose first initial was B.
Michael K. Cham, Soviet agent in New York who provided intelligence on the aircraft industry to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko until and probably beyond October 1944.
Joseph.& Leona Franey, Leona was the head librarian at Bell
Aircraft, Joseph was an employee in the rubber section of Hooker Electro-Chemical. They were recruited by KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko and were turned by the FBI in August 1944. Leona gave Shevchenko photos of blueprints for the Bell P-59 jet, jet engine design and issues involved in the design of swept back wings. This intelligence had been sanitized by the FBI. In June 1949 the Franeys testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee about Soviet espionage that targeted jet propulsion.
Loren Haas, Bell Aircraft engineer recruited by KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko and turned by the FBI. Haas gave Shevchenko photos of a jet engine being developed in late 1944. The photos had been sanitized by the FBI. After leaving Bell in 1945, Haas went to work for Westinghouse and gave Shevchenko photos of jet engine designs that had been sanitized by the FBI.
Aleksandr Petroff, Curtis-Wright Aircraft Corp. employee who gave KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko intelligence on aircraft production methods.
William Pinsly, Curtis-Wright Aircraft Corp. employee, agent of KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko.
William Plourde, Bell Aircraft engineer who gave intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko in 1944.
Harold Smelzer, Bell Aircraft employee who provided intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko.
BROTHER, THOMAS, cover names of an unidentified Soviet agent in New York who provided intelligence on technical and scientific intelligence that may have included aircraft technology. BROTHER, THOMAS may be William Plourde.
BUGLE, cover name of an unidentified Soviet agent in New York who provided aircraft intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko. Bugle may be Joseph Bauer.
SPLINT, cover name of an unidentified Soviet agent in New York who provided aircraft intelligence to KGB officer Andrey I. Shevchenko.
B. first initial of a KGB agent who worked at Republic Aviation and gave intelligence on U.S. research on the American version of the V-1.
EMULSION, SIGNAL, cover names of an unidentified Soviet agent who worked as a Soviet agent at Eastman Kodak in 1938 and provided intelligence in 1943 and 1944 on the military aircraft INDUSTRY.
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 20:20
William, information in my post, below, on Soviet acquisition of our jet technology comes primarily from the Vassiliev notebooks, the Mitrokhin archives, Venona decrypts and the “ritz-kidney” records. So things are confirmed from both sides. On ours, FBI investigations and intelligence operations that include decryption of Soviet message traffic and on the Soviet side from the records of their intelligence services.
Thus we read:
“William Perl, a brilliant young government aeronautical scientist, provided the Soviets with the results of the highly secret tests and design experiments for American jet engines and jet aircraft. His betrayal assisted the Soviet Union in quickly overcoming the American technological lead in the development of jets. In the Korean War, U.S. military leaders expected the Air Force to dominate the skies, on the assumption that the Soviet aircraft used by North Korea and Communist China would be no match for American aircraft. They were shocked when Soviet MiG-15 jet fighters not only flew rings around U.S. propeller-driven aircraft but were conspicuously superior to the first generation of American jets as well. Only the hurried deployment of America’s newest jet fighter, the F-86 Saber, allowed the United States to match the technological capabilities of the MiG-15. The Air Force prevailed, owing more to the skill of American pilots than to the design of American aircraft.”
– VENONA Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr (Yale University Press, 1999), page 10
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 12:27
I wonder how Churchill felt about the fire bombing of Tokyo, Yokohama, Kobe and scores of other cities in Japan that killed 100’s of thousands more than both atomic bombs combined.
Or even closer to Britain, the bombings of German cities like Dresden, Hamburg, Braunschweig and nearly every city with a major population..
I think we can both agree that war it’s self is an act of terrorism..;)
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 00:19
Starting from the end, yeah, war has a lot of terror in it, and one wants to instill terror in the enemy to erode their will to fight.
During our Civil War, after major battles it was so awful that often thousands of troops from either side would flee the battlefield.
Within about a 10-mile radius of where I type this from, 100,000 men died during that war.
Since the bombing of cities was started by the Germans against the Brits and payback of a similar sort was thought acceptable, I doubt Churchill batted an eye at the firebombings in Japan. After all, the Allies did the same to many German cities, as you said.
I am typing this in Fredericksburg, Va., the site of some mighty nasty urban fighting. In December 1862 the Federal forces lined Chatham Heights across the river with cannons and they opened fire on the town, destroying large sections of it. They were seldom aiming at any military targets.
I had the pleasure to work on a house used as a field hospital at that time. The homeowner had a letter from a soldier who was in a cot on the second floor recuperating from his wounds. In the letter, he described a cannon ball coming through the front wall, passing over his bed, hitting the chimney, bouncing off and then went down the stairs where it went through the panel door on the first floor.
Another giuy and I removed drywall to reveal the old plaster wall and there was a bunch of graffitii from 1862 on it. We got the chimney uncovered and could see where that cannon ball had hit and yep – you guessed it – they still had the same door at the foot of the stairs and with the paint stripped off the repair where the cannon ball had gone through was evident.
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 14:39
I still think ‘extreme right-wing religious terrorist’ describes them aptly.
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 15:39
I still think ‘extreme right-wing religious terrorist’ describes them aptly.
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 14:53
Good point. But then again, why are there so many terrorists in that religion specifically?
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 16:00
It’s not so much the religion, as it is that part of the world. It is a part of the world where there is a lot of oppression from those at the top.
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 18:57
Very good point, certainly true. But the level of fanaticism is high and linked to their religion by the very ones inflicting the horrors. They do it in their God’s name, or not?
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 19:53
Religion is the tool being used to manipulate those disaffected by poverty and oppression. The real question is, in what God’s name, not if. A bastardized and perverted religion used by evil people to manipulate pawns is not the same religion as religions sharing the same name and seemingly similar definitions of God.
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 20:34
Briefly you mean they don’t represent Islam, not truly. But they sure know how to spread the fear of a radical Islam.
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 20:41
You’re starting to understand. It’s complicated, yet at the same time, pretty simple. It’s the illusion of the deception that makes things seem complicated. Once you can see through the deception and the propaganda and recognize what forces are at work it gets much easier to understand.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:43
Exactly~!
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 20:48
I did not mean though that a radical Islam does not exist but in propaganda…
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 01:56
I have no idea what the faith of the Mongol hordes was, but they sure spread fear when they approached threatening death and destruction. Their faith didn’t have anything to do with it.
I think the impending threat of death and destruction by such forces have always tended to spread fear before them in history.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 01:51
I think the question you need to ask is whether the same people under the same conditions but without any religion would behave similarly. I think history shows that when people have suffered stripping of their resources during long periods of colonization followed by numerous corrupt abusive rulers that they tend to revolt regardless of their faith.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 01:26
Good point.
That’s why there is not nearly so much terrorism taking place in Denmark, say.
I would toss culture into the mix. Arab culture got stuck in neutral a thousand years ago, roughly and is still feudal in many ways. They never went through the Reformation, Age of Enlightenment or Age of Reason.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 16:22
History is fascinating…
And ugly if you look far enough back.(300 years ago)..
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 18:52
Three hundred years ago meaning the 18th century? Where were there Christian terrorists killing by tens of thousands then?
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:16
I wasn’t referring to “slavery”, but since you mentioned it..
Slavery was sanctioned for centuries using biblical passages..
In both the Old and new Testaments…
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 21:00
But the motor of it was economic, not religious.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:08
I have to disagree…
(partially)..
It was economic based on the right of the righteous to oversee and control what the godless peoples that had and stood in the way of progress
for centuries..(the colonial view of the world)..
And I would like to add, I Haven’t read anything you have posted that I totally disagree with..
And your avatar..
Very cute and cuddly..~!
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 21:26
That’s very kind!
tracey marie February 7th, 2015 at 21:50
Gina is very intelligent and involved politically, You will find her delightfully informative
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 22:07
Tracey! :) Long time no talk! How nice!
tracey marie February 7th, 2015 at 22:13
Hi there Gina, I haven’t been around as much. Good to see you
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 22:25
Good to see you too dear! :)
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 23:00
I noticed…
Gina presents important questions…..
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 11:08
I agree~!
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 01:39
Weren’t they often captured and sold into slavery by those you refer to as “godless”?
And weren’t the “righteous” as you say, sold into slavery and rowed galleys around and such before colonization ever took place here?
How about the American Indians, who I guess you’d classify as “godless,” did they have slaves when settlers arrived here?
How about the “godless” Barbary States we fought in the early 1800s. Um, didn’t they capture American “Righteous” sailors and either sell or threaten to sell them into slavery?
Ever do any reading on the conflict between Britain and Russia for control over the area from Turkey through the -stan countries to Afghanistan and Pakistan? Peter Hopkirk’s “The Great Game” is a nice one to start with.
The “godless” held captured “righteous” prisoners as slaves. Oh yeah, I’m not making that up.
So what we see in the history of slavery is not so much as a religious cause but one of conquest. The conquering nation took slaves from the population of the conquered, regardless of the faith of the conquering nation or the conquered.
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 11:06
Good comment..
Except I dont agree that the native Americans were ‘godless”.
Or for that matter anyone..(except for non-theist)
I was referring to the idea that some people were seen as “godless” if they didn’t subscribe to the particular “god” who was the diety of the dominate oppressor.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 21:58
Good points. I was using the words you did but should have used another term. I agree with everything you said. I like that.
jasperjava February 8th, 2015 at 15:48
Just like the motor for “Islamic” terrorism is power and control, not religion.
Gina February 8th, 2015 at 16:16
The parallel does not apply.
mea_mark February 8th, 2015 at 17:09
It doesn’t, why not?
Gina February 8th, 2015 at 17:32
I avoid parallels that seem to make everything look like everything else, killing the specifics of each historical event. I was mentioning slavery’s motor, economics. No parallel with the subject in question. As for attributing only to power and control the motor for the radical Islam, one forgets for people of faith like them the sacred books have a value per se. So does religion. It’s not just “fake”, it plays a role in the extremism.
mea_mark February 8th, 2015 at 18:55
But at what percentage of a role does an event or cause then cause parallelism to be negated? Choose if you will to avoid parallels but it does not negate that they are there by your will alone.
Gina February 9th, 2015 at 09:44
Let me put it another way. A parallel between Middle east conflicts and slavery with power as a basis– but power relations permeate everything. Are we going to put everything in parallel? To make parallelism you need to look at the specificity of phenomena, only then, if it’s there you can point it. That’s my opinion, I’m not a historian, only have some knowledge of philosophy and methodology.
jasperjava February 9th, 2015 at 11:57
Yes it does. These terrorists cloak their lust for power in religious garb. They don’t give a $hit about Islam.
jasperjava February 9th, 2015 at 11:57
Yes it does. These terrorists cloak their lust for power in religious garb. They don’t give a $hit about Islam.
Gina February 9th, 2015 at 12:06
You prefer to ignore the role of faith among believers. Islamists are very committed to their faith. Westerners can easily minimize the power of faith among believers in the East.
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 19:10
Out of almost 4 billion? That’s not a lot, we just focus on them because of our own politics.
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 19:15
Ok, they are not many out of the total number of islamists. But they are a high number out of the total number of terrorists and they do it in their faith’s name.
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 19:25
IDK, you are forgetting about the “cleansing” in Bosnia-Herzegovina that was done under christianity’s name. The right in our country countenance’s violence against women and the doctor’s who dare care for them, the Atlanta bombings were done by a “christian”, as was OK. City. and many others where the press won’t call the acts terrorism, until one is a muslim, like the officer in TX., that was terrorism.
None of those were covered as fanatically as the Middle East. We are a short attention span nation with a near holy war of our own making and we are looking everywhere but at ourselves to find a villain.
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 19:32
I acknowledge your points–I’m not forgetting CIA’s torture tactics– but their degree of cruelty is hard to ignore, almost makes then horridly outstanding in a macabre way.
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 20:03
No question, there.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:28
Those types of ugly episodes are best ignored when focusing on ‘Islamic terrorism”…
Please dont muddy the conversation with facts..:)
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 20:40
Sorry! got carried away there.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:58
No problemo amigo..:)
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 01:20
We were the ones who put a stop to the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia. We did it with air power and didn’t lose a man in combat, an incredible accomplishment.
burqa February 7th, 2015 at 21:07
These things ebb and flow. For a long time the majority of Arab terrorists were from secular organizations that eschewed Islam and favored atheistic communism.
It’s just that we are way over here in this half of a hemisphere and our interests are not global, or at least we are not well informed about groups like Shining Path in Peru that’s atheist. Not positive but M-19 in Colombia may be atheist and so were the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka.
It’s been a while since they popped up, but the Alex Bonkayao Brigade in the Philippines is an atheist outfit.
We’ve seen things ebb and flow in terms of where they are on the political spectrum. A lot of these jihadist groups would be placed on the far right, yet I remember when the SLA here, the Red Army Faction and the Red Brigades in Europe would be placed on the far Left. As I recall, Action Directe in France was a Leftist group.
FAI in Italy is an anarchist group and I don’t know where they would be in terms of Left and Right or faith of its members.
Never fall for the trap of thinking ideological lines or dotted lines on a map hem terrorism into a particular group because when you do exceptions will pop up.
Because we see that terrorist groups span the political spectrum and they have adherents claiming to be of many faiths and there are plenty of others with no religious belief, the lesson here is that evil is something that may appear in any large segment of society.
It’s a character flaw that humans are susceptible to.
This seems obvious and easy to learn to me, but this is how it goes with humans. Things easy for some of us to learn are difficult for others.
Gina February 7th, 2015 at 21:23
I’m very much aware of the facts you mention. In my comment I was referring to the present, when they seem to outnumber any other faith in terms of terror groups.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 01:20
If you put them all together they might. But if we put all the ones together in South America, it might be closer than many think. FARC has been pretty big, not sure of the numbers of M-19, Shining Path or the others.
If I had to bet my paycheck one way or the other I think I’d go with the jihadists, especially if you include the non-Arab jihadists such as Abu Sayyaf, the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban.
Further, I like to look at trends and it looks as if this will continue to be the case for several years.
I’m speculating, of course, but the more I think about your question the better I feel about my answer. I have always been careful because what happens in South America doesn’t get much press.
Here’s some stats from 1999 that can show you why I hesitate:
On page 17 is a chart giving the numbers of attacks on the U.S. homeland compared to total attacks in other regions.
In third place is Asia with 72 attacks, second place is Western Europe with 85 and Latin America in first place with 116 attacks.
On page 21 is a chart with the total attacks on Americans by region.
In third place is Africa with 16, second place is Western Europe with 30, and Latin America with 96.
– from “Terrorism, Asymetric Warfare and Weapons of Mass Destruction : Defending the U.S. Homeland,” by Anthony S. Cordesman (Praeger, 2002)
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 15:53
Good point. But then again, why are there so many terrorists in that religion specifically?
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 17:00
It’s not so much the religion, as it is that part of the world. It is a part of the world where there is a lot of oppression from those at the top.
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 19:57
Very good point, certainly true. But the level of fanaticism is high and linked to their religion by the very ones inflicting the horrors. They do it in their God’s name, or not?
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 20:53
Religion is the tool being used to manipulate those disaffected by poverty and oppression. The real question is, in what God’s name, not if. A bastardized and perverted religion used by evil people to manipulate pawns is not the same religion as religions sharing the same name and seemingly similar definitions of God.
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 21:34
Briefly you mean they don’t represent Islam, not truly. But they sure know how to spread the fear of a radical Islam.
mea_mark February 7th, 2015 at 21:41
You’re starting to understand. It’s complicated, yet at the same time, pretty simple. It’s the illusion of the deception that makes things seem complicated. Once you can see through the deception and the propaganda and recognize what forces are at work it gets much easier to understand.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:43
Exactly~!
And lets not over look how Africa was dominated by “Christian countries” (colonialism) for centuries and used as slave labor, and a continent rife with resources for the plucking due to the fact that “savage heathens” inhabited the lands..
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 21:48
I did not mean though that a radical Islam does not exist but in propaganda…
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:56
I have no idea what the faith of the Mongol hordes was, but they sure spread fear when they approached threatening death and destruction. Their faith didn’t have anything to do with it.
I think the impending threat of death and destruction by such forces have always tended to spread fear before them in history.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:51
I think the question you need to ask is whether the same people under the same conditions but without any religion would behave similarly. I think history shows that when people have suffered stripping of their resources during long periods of colonization followed by numerous corrupt abusive rulers that they tend to revolt regardless of their faith.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:26
Good point.
That’s why there is not nearly so much terrorism taking place in Denmark, say.
I would toss culture into the mix. Arab culture got stuck in neutral a thousand years ago, roughly and is still feudal in many ways. They never went through the Reformation, Age of Enlightenment or Age of Reason.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 17:22
History is fascinating…
And ugly if you look far enough back.(300 years ago)..
Christian terrorist where slaughtering ‘non believers” by the tens of thousands..
Where is the line drawn?
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 19:52
3oo years ago meaning the 18th century? Christians killing by tens of thousands, you mean slavery? That was commerce, economics, more than religious fanaticism
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:16
I wasn’t referring to “slavery”, but since you mentioned it..
Slavery was sanctioned for centuries using biblical passages..
In both the Old and New Testaments…
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 22:00
But the motor of it was economic, not religious.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 22:08
I have to disagree…
(partially)..
It was economic based on the right of the righteous to oversee and control what the godless peoples that had and stood in the way of progress
for centuries..(the colonial view of the world)..
And I would like to add, I Haven’t read anything you have posted that I totally disagree with..
And your avatar..
Very cute and cuddly..~!
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 22:26
That’s very kind of you!
tracey marie February 7th, 2015 at 22:50
Gina is very intelligent and involved politically, You will find her delightfully informative
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 23:07
Tracey! :) Long time no talk! How nice!
tracey marie February 7th, 2015 at 23:13
Hi there Gina, I haven’t been around as much. Good to see you
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 23:25
Good to see you too dear! :)
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 00:00
I noticed…
Gina presents important questions…..
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 12:08
I agree~!
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:39
Weren’t the “righteous” often captured and sold into slavery by those you refer to as “godless”?
And weren’t the “righteous” as you say, sold into slavery and rowed galleys around and such before colonization ever took place here?
How about the American Indians, who I guess you’d classify as “godless,” did they have slaves when settlers arrived here?
How about the “godless” Barbary States we fought in the early 1800s. Um, didn’t they capture American “Righteous” sailors and either sell or threaten to sell them into slavery?
Ever do any reading on the conflict between Britain, Russia fand local warlords for control over the area from Turkey through the -stan countries to Afghanistan and Pakistan? Peter Hopkirk’s “The Great Game” is a nice one to start with.
The “godless” held captured “righteous” prisoners as slaves. Oh yeah, I’m not making that up.
So what we see in the history of slavery is not so much as a religious cause but one of conquest. The conquering nation took slaves from the population of the conquered, regardless of the faith of the conquering nation or the conquered.
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 12:06
Good comment..
Except I dont agree that the native Americans were ‘godless”.
Or for that matter anyone..(except for non-theist)
I was referring to the idea that some people were seen as “godless” if they didn’t subscribe to the particular “god” who was the diety of the dominate oppressor.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 22:58
Good points. I was using the words you did but should have used another term. I agree with everything you said. I like that.
That book by Hopkirk is really good.
It includes stories of Russians and Brits captured by local warlords and made slaves. Some were rescued many years later.
jasperjava February 8th, 2015 at 16:48
Just like the motor for “Islamic” terrorism is power and control, not religion.
Gina Bousquet February 8th, 2015 at 17:16
The parallel does not apply.
mea_mark February 8th, 2015 at 18:09
It doesn’t, why not?
Gina Bousquet February 8th, 2015 at 18:32
I avoid parallels that seem to make everything look like everything else, killing the specifics of each historical event. I was mentioning slavery’s motor, economics. No parallel with the subject in question. As for attributing only to power and control the motor for the radical Islam, one forgets for people of faith like them the sacred books have a value per se. So does religion. It’s not just “fake”, it plays a role in the extremism.
mea_mark February 8th, 2015 at 19:55
But at what percentage of a role does an event or cause then cause parallelism to be negated? Choose if you will to avoid parallels but it does not negate that they are there by your will alone.
Gina Bousquet February 9th, 2015 at 10:44
Let me put it another way. A parallel between Middle east conflicts and slavery with power as a basis– but power relations permeate everything. Are we going to put everything in parallel? To make parallelism you need to look at the specificity of phenomena, only then, if it’s there you can point it. That’s just my opinion, I’m not a historian, only have some knowledge of philosophy and methodology.
jasperjava February 9th, 2015 at 12:57
Yes it does. These terrorists cloak their lust for power in religious garb. They don’t give a $hit about Islam.
Gina Bousquet February 9th, 2015 at 13:06
You prefer to ignore the role of faith among believers. Islamists are very much committed to their faith. Westerners can easily minimize the power of faith among believers in the East. Do they have a corrupted perspective of their sacred book? Of course. That does not mean they worship the prophet any less. They are not called fundamentalists for any other reason.
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 20:10
Out of almost 4 billion? That’s not a lot, we just focus on them because of our own politics.
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 20:15
Ok, they are not many out of the total number of islamists. But they are a high number out of the total number of terrorists and they do it in their faith’s name. I know there’s more to it than this… The region political importance, our focus as you pointed out.
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 20:25
IDK, you are forgetting about the “cleansing” in Bosnia-Herzegovina that was done under christianity’s name. The right in our country countenance’s violence against women and the doctor’s who dare care for them, the Atlanta bombings were done by a “christian”, as was OK. City. and many others where the press won’t call the acts terrorism, until one is a muslim, like the officer in TX., that was terrorism.
None of those were covered as fanatically as the Middle East. We are a short attention span nation with a near holy war of our own making and we are looking everywhere but at ourselves to find a villain.
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 20:32
I acknowledge your points–I’m not forgetting CIA’s torture tactics– but their degree of cruelty is hard to ignore, almost makes then horridly outstanding in a macabre way.
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 21:03
No question, there.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:28
Those types of ugly episodes are best ignored when focusing on ‘Islamic terrorism”…
Please dont muddy the conversation with facts..:)
tiredoftea February 7th, 2015 at 21:40
Sorry! got carried away there.
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:58
No problemo amigo..:)
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:20
We were the ones who put a stop to the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia. We did it with air power and didn’t lose a man in combat, an incredible accomplishment.
burqa February 7th, 2015 at 22:07
Some of it is the media which gives some groups a lot more attention than others.
These things ebb and flow. For a long time the majority of Arab terrorists were from secular organizations that eschewed Islam and favored atheistic communism.
It’s just that we are way over here in this half of a hemisphere and our interests are not global, or at least we are not well informed about groups like Shining Path in Peru that’s atheist. Not positive but M-19 in Colombia may be atheist and so were the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka.
It’s been a while since they popped up, but the Alex Bonkayao Brigade in the Philippines is an atheist outfit.
We’ve seen things ebb and flow in terms of where they are on the political spectrum. A lot of these jihadist groups would be placed on the far right, yet I remember when the SLA here, the Red Army Faction and the Red Brigades in Europe would be placed on the far Left. As I recall, Action Directe in France was a Leftist group.
FAI in Italy is an anarchist group and I don’t know where they would be in terms of Left and Right or faith of its members.
Never fall for the trap of thinking ideological lines or dotted lines on a map somehow hem terrorism into one particular group and immunizes another because when you do exceptions will pop up, especially with someone like me around who has built a pretty good database on terrorism and espionage.
Because we see that terrorist groups span the political spectrum and they have adherents claiming to be of many faiths and there are plenty of others with no religious belief, the lesson here is that evil is something that may appear in any large segment of society.
It’s a character flaw that humans are susceptible to.
This seems obvious and easy to learn to me, but this is how it goes with humans. Things easy for some of us to learn are difficult for others. So I’m learning patience in this case just as others have learned patience waiting for me to get pastr a particular strain of dumbass that was afflicting me at the time.
Gina Bousquet February 7th, 2015 at 22:23
I’m very much aware of the facts you mention. In my comment I was referring to the present, when they seem to outnumber any other faith in terms of terror groups.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 02:20
If you put them all together they might. But if we put all the ones together in South America, it might be closer than many think. FARC has been pretty big, not sure of the numbers of M-19, Shining Path or the others.
If I had to bet my paycheck one way or the other I think I’d go with the jihadists, especially if you include the non-Arab jihadists such as Abu Sayyaf, the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban.
Further, I like to look at trends and it looks as if this will continue to be the case for several years.
I’m speculating, of course, but the more I think about your question the better I feel about my answer. I have always been careful because what happens in South America doesn’t get much press.
Here’s some stats from 1999 that can show you why I hesitate:
On page 17 is a chart giving the numbers of attacks on the U.S. homeland compared to total attacks in other regions.
In third place is Asia with 72 attacks, second place is Western Europe with 85 and Latin America in first place with 116 attacks.
On page 21 is a chart with the total attacks on Americans by region.
In third place is Africa with 16, second place is Western Europe with 30, and Latin America with 96.
– from “Terrorism, Asymetric Warfare and Weapons of Mass Destruction : Defending the U.S. Homeland,” by Anthony S. Cordesman (Praeger, 2002)
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 16:17
The Only Way (Hymn) And Infinite Space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrzyd8R8YWs
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 17:17
The Only Way (Hymn) And Infinite Space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrzyd8R8YWs
Red Eye Robot February 7th, 2015 at 19:04
Shiite and Suni have been slaughtering each other in the name of islam for centuries, I guess they aren’t muslims either
arc99 February 7th, 2015 at 19:16
You mean like the way Protestants and Catholics were slaughtering each other in northern Ireland until about a decade ago?
burqa February 7th, 2015 at 21:12
Some of those groups in Northern Ireland were atheist Marxist in ideology, y’know…..
tracey marie February 7th, 2015 at 21:47
stop already
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 00:39
Am I breaking a rule?
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 23:06
Let them bones lay…
In the ground..
where they belong.
Red Eye Robot February 9th, 2015 at 11:04
throughout the entire conflict in Northern Ireland, the worst year (1972) saw 500 dead. That’s a slow afternoon for Muslims
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 18:28
“We report, you throw up.”
Wasn’t that the line you guys used last night? Refresh my memory, please…..
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 20:26
Brother against brother, father against son…
I guess American Christians killing each other by the 100’s of thousands never entered you fetid mind.
Red Eye Robot February 9th, 2015 at 10:57
hundreds of thousands? Oh My!
burqa February 7th, 2015 at 20:32
You guys gonna have that cat from MotorKote on again anytime soon?
jasperjava February 8th, 2015 at 15:42
That’s not even true. Another racist right-wing invention.
Red Eye Robot February 9th, 2015 at 10:50
Yeah , because Saddam wasn’t killing Shiites. Also Iraq isn’t the only country in the middle east
jasperjava February 9th, 2015 at 11:54
I love how ignorant right-wingers with a grade school “education” think that they understand the complexities of Middle-Eastern politics and history. So cute. It’s like a four-year-old trying to explain nuclear fission.
Red Eye Robot February 7th, 2015 at 20:04
Shiite and Suni have been slaughtering each other in the name of islam for centuries, I guess they aren’t muslims either
arc99 February 7th, 2015 at 20:16
You mean like the way Protestants and Catholics were slaughtering each other in northern Ireland until about a decade ago?
burqa February 7th, 2015 at 22:12
Some of those groups in Northern Ireland were atheist Marxist in ideology, y’know…..
tracey marie February 7th, 2015 at 22:47
stop already
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 01:39
Am I breaking a rule?
StoneyCurtisll February 8th, 2015 at 00:06
Let them bones lay…
In the ground..
where they belong.
Red Eye Robot February 9th, 2015 at 12:04
throughout the entire conflict in Northern Ireland, the worst year (1972) saw 500 dead. That’s a slow afternoon for Muslims
burqa February 9th, 2015 at 19:28
“We report, you throw up.”
Wasn’t that the line you guys used last night? Refresh my memory, please…..
StoneyCurtisll February 7th, 2015 at 21:26
Brother against brother, father against son…
I guess American Christians killing each other by the 100’s of thousands never entered you fetid mind.
Red Eye Robot February 9th, 2015 at 11:57
hundreds of thousands? Oh My!
burqa February 7th, 2015 at 21:32
You guys gonna have that cat from MotorKote on again anytime soon?
jasperjava February 8th, 2015 at 16:42
That’s not even true. Another racist right-wing invention.
The only reason why Sun’nis and Shias were fighting each other in Iraq is because the Cheney administration left a power vacuum after deposing Saddam. Rumsfeld even threatened to fire any of his generals who dared to draw up a plan for the post-invasion occupation.
Red Eye Robot February 9th, 2015 at 11:50
Yeah , because Saddam wasn’t killing Shiites. Also Iraq isn’t the only country in the middle east
jasperjava February 9th, 2015 at 12:54
I love how ignorant right-wingers with a grade school “education” think that they understand the complexities of Middle-Eastern politics and history. So cute. It’s like a four-year-old trying to explain nuclear fission.
Jake February 8th, 2015 at 09:23
I put this in as a request for a separate post just before this thread appeared – I guess the theme was too close to the same theme to merit its own thread.
Amazing comments from Brooklyn Imam this past Friday. It is ten minutes long – I wish it were longer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvPKAl1GXfM
TAX the CHURCHES! – but give this man’s mosque a General Electric type tax refund.
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 22:03
I like that image in the OP of the guy about to throw a bouquet of flowers….
burqa February 8th, 2015 at 23:03
I like that image in the OP of the guy about to throw a bouquet of flowers….