Ferguson Resident’s FBI Interview: Darren Wilson Nicknamed ‘Ears’, Known For Hassling People
For the second time, St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch has held back documents related to evidence in Michael Brown’s death at the hands of Ferguson Police officer Darren Wilson.
Buzfeed reports:
Among the 23 newly-released documents is a transcript of a police interview with Dorian Johnson, a friend of Brown’s, who was with the unarmed teenager when he was shot and killed.
“Once the officer fired the second shot at my friend Big Mike I knew he was struck because he instantly stopped in his tracks,” Johnson told detectives in the interview. “He stopped running. His hands were in the air before he turned around.”
Johnson said that Brown had raised his hands and shouted that he was unarmed to the officers. He also said he heard “more than four” shots fired.
“My friend went all the way down in the fatal [sic] position,” Johnson told detectives. “I watched him take every, several more shots. I watched his facial expression.”
“I see the pain in his face,” he said. “He cannot say nothin’. He’s not screamin’ ‘cause I feel like he’s still in shock because each time, each time he’s shot, he’s tryin’ to get another word out until the fatal shot which, I don’t know what made him stop moving, but he stopped moving and he was on the ground.”
Johnson described feeling sick and nauseated following the shooting. “I seen someone who I was just seconds to talking to, dead,” he said.
Included in the newly released documents, a Ferguson resident told the F.B.I. that Officer Wilson was nicknamed “Ears” in the neighborhood, “cause his ears big”. Wilson was said to have a reputation in the community for “messing with people around here” and “pulling people over.”
Newly released FBI interview: Ferguson resident claims Darren Wilson was nicknamed “Ears”, known for hassling people pic.twitter.com/T7d98vvakR
— Jon Swaine (@jonswaine) December 13, 2014
I think we should nickname Bob McCulloch “Ears” for “messing with people.”
Copyright 2014 Liberaland
By: Anomaly100
lynchie December 14th, 2014 at 09:55
So with hold evidence and now say Oops. What else did he with hold
lynchie December 14th, 2014 at 10:55
So with hold evidence and now say Oops. What else did he with hold
MIAtheistGal December 14th, 2014 at 10:04
And magically more evidence appears from the hidey hole. Evidence critical of Wilson. Funny, that.
Grimmy Sung Gi Lee December 14th, 2014 at 11:31
How about all the Wilson supporters that are just fine about going on and on about a crime that Mike Brown was never even charged with much less convicted of?
tomjohnson December 14th, 2014 at 12:31
Sorry, brain fart. Mine that is.
Guest December 14th, 2014 at 12:30
Don’t feed the troll….
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V
MIAtheistGal December 14th, 2014 at 11:04
And magically more evidence appears from the hidey hole. Evidence critical of Wilson. Funny, that.
Grimmy Sung Gi Lee December 14th, 2014 at 12:31
How about all the Wilson supporters that are just fine about going on and on about a crime that Mike Brown was never even charged with much less convicted of?
tomjohnson December 14th, 2014 at 13:31
Sorry, brain fart. Mine that is.
Larry Schmitt December 14th, 2014 at 10:18
The more we learn about this guy, the more despicable he becomes.
Larry Schmitt December 14th, 2014 at 10:19
Oh, and that would apply to both McCulloch and Wilson.
Larry Schmitt December 14th, 2014 at 11:18
The more we learn about this guy, the more despicable he becomes.
Larry Schmitt December 14th, 2014 at 11:19
Oh, and that would apply to both McCulloch and Wilson.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 10:21
Isn’t that prosecutorial misconduct? Last time I checked, omitting evidence is not permitted. Inadvertently or not, all materials are to be turned over. He’s suppose to present all evidence in an unbiased fashion as a prosecutor. And people wonder why the entire county is still protesting? What the fuck is wrong with people? Is it so difficult to realize that some cops shouldn’t be cops? That they did indeed commit a crime, while in uniform, and should be behind bars? That would actually make you more credible as a law enforcement agency, really. It would show that you uphold the law for all people. Not that any of those agencies would read this, I just had to say it.
Ronald Woolever December 14th, 2014 at 12:17
I think you are referring to when they go to trial. When going before the grand jury the prosecutor gets to decide what evidence the grand jury sees. That is why they say a DA could indict a ham sandwich. It is also what was very wrong with this DA’s handling of this. Normally a grand jury only sees evidence a prosecutor wants them to see and that rarely includes defense witnesses. This DA not only showed evidence useful to the defense, but excluded evidence that would have pointed a finger at the cop. On the on hand you could say it is misconduct. It appears that the DA got the result from the jury that he wanted. He couldn’t let it pass without bringing it to a grand jury, but he could make the grand jury not indict.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 13:32
I was under the impression that this was what is called a “Special Grand Jury” which can subpoena witnesses in an investigatory role when they believe a governing body is corrupt. Which when investigating an officer, one would think that constitutes as corrupt. Isn’t that what they said they were going to do? I know the prosecutor has sole discretion in a grand jury, but the grand jury, itself has powers above and beyond that of a prosecutor. What they call a runaway jury, where the prosecutor has no control over them. That’s something the can also do.
wdc December 14th, 2014 at 13:53
Where did you hear that?
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 14:45
What do you mean “Where did I hear that?” You mean my impression or what a Special Grand Jury can do?
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 16:57
Unfortunately, they’re right. Unlike a trial jury once one has been charged – the Prosecutor is not bound to release or share the totality of the information. The big problem here is that McCullough lied to the public about what he released – then there is the flat out lie regarding Tennessee V Garner which completely misled the GJ.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 18:33
Yes, I see that. I just read up on the rules and procedures. Somehow, it doesn’t seem in keeping with the rest of our criminal justice system. I do know of the investigatory powers of a Special Grand Jury. I thought that is what they said they were going to do in order to show “transparency”. What happened with that? I think the fact that the prosecutor’s office has deliberately kept info out of the hands of the GJ, shows that the system is corrupt.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 19:24
You would be absolutely correct. Transparency has nothing to do with what/how McCullough did/presented the GJ – in spite of everything he said. If you watch the press conference you can see his pants catch on fire (I tease) I only wish. How effective would that be? If each time they lied, their pants actually caught fire.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 20:51
That would work for me. Definitely.
Ronald Woolever December 15th, 2014 at 10:32
What you are saying is true. Grand Juries have those discretionary powers, at least the do in my state, but again I have seen the workings of they Grand Juries and as often as not they simply follow the lead of the prosecutor. I don’t really know the make up of this particular jury so it is difficult to speculate, but I am leaning towards a compliant jury. There is enough evidence from this DA’s personal history to make this proceeding suspect. I will be waiting for the DOJ’s report with great interest.
Mainah December 15th, 2014 at 12:25
What’s his personal history? Do you have any links? I am interested to see the DOJ’s report as well. What shocks me, is the Garner case. That was filmed and was an obvious choke hold and yet … no indictment. That one really shocked me. It was on film!
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 10:21
He should be in jail for misconduct.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 10:22
Hey Carla! My comment has the f word in it but isn’t directed at any one. Any chance you can post that?
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 10:24
You got it. It had been a bit since I’d checked the board. Thanks for the reminder, yours was not the only one stuck!
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 10:31
Thank you kindly!
epazote December 14th, 2014 at 17:03
He should be indicted for conspiracy to obstruct justice…a federal offense
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 17:07
Not that I disagree, but conspiracy requires a 2nd conspiratorial party and hard proof. It wouldn’t ever stick, nor would a judge allow the charge. The best we can hope for is that he’ll be forced to resign. Good luck getting another dept to hire him. No one wants the insurance or press risk.
epazote December 14th, 2014 at 17:18
I believe it can be established McCullogh conspired with Ferguson PD Chief and his staff of asst DA’s in preparing what evidence would be presented to the Grand Jury to assure Wilson would not be indicted.
The feds need to get this mess sorted out.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 19:39
I don’t think Jackson is smart enough to punch his way out of a cardboard box, much less engage in conspiracy. That said, I believe both he and Bob are guilty of a number of crimes only the feds can bring. It just depends on whether they think it will help or hurt the overall situation. I’m a firm believer in working through the truth and let the chips fall. But I’m not in charge, and I’m often wrong and a bad judge of results.
whatthe46 December 14th, 2014 at 18:00
surely there’s the D.A.’s office that knew what he was doing.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 19:32
He is the DA’s office. The head of the DA’s office.
whatthe46 December 14th, 2014 at 20:23
but, they colaborate with each other.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 11:21
Isn’t that prosecutorial misconduct? Last time I checked, omitting evidence is not permitted. Inadvertently or not, all materials are to be turned over. He’s suppose to present all evidence in an unbiased fashion as a prosecutor. And people wonder why the entire county is still protesting? What the fuck is wrong with people? Is it so difficult to realize that some cops shouldn’t be cops? That they did indeed commit a crime, while in uniform, and should be behind bars? That would actually make you more credible as a law enforcement agency, really. It would show that you uphold the law for all people. Not that any of those agencies would read this, I just had to say it.
Ronald Woolever December 14th, 2014 at 13:17
I think you are referring to when they go to trial. When going before the grand jury the prosecutor gets to decide what evidence the grand jury sees. That is why they say a DA could indict a ham sandwich. It is also what was very wrong with this DA’s handling of this. Normally a grand jury only sees evidence a prosecutor wants them to see and that rarely includes defense witnesses. This DA not only showed evidence useful to the defense, but excluded evidence that would have pointed a finger at the cop. On the on hand you could say it is misconduct. It appears that the DA got the result from the jury that he wanted. He couldn’t let it pass without bringing it to a grand jury, but he could make the grand jury not indict.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 14:32
I was under the impression that this was what is called a “Special Grand Jury” which can subpoena witnesses in an investigatory role when they believe a governing body is corrupt. Which when investigating an officer, one would think that constitutes as corrupt. Isn’t that what they said they were going to do? I know the prosecutor has sole discretion in a grand jury, but the grand jury, itself has powers above and beyond that of a prosecutor. What they call a runaway jury, where the prosecutor has no control over them. That’s something the can also do.
wdc December 14th, 2014 at 14:53
Where did you hear that?
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 15:45
What do you mean “Where did I hear that?” You mean my impression or what a Special Grand Jury can do?
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 17:57
Unfortunately, they’re right. Unlike a trial jury once one has been charged – the Prosecutor is not bound to release or share the totality of the information. The big problem here is that McCullough lied to the public about what he released – then there is the flat out lie regarding Tennessee V Garner which completely misled the GJ.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 19:33
Yes, I see that. I just read up on the rules and procedures. Somehow, it doesn’t seem in keeping with the rest of our criminal justice system. I do know of the investigatory powers of a Special Grand Jury. I thought that is what they said they were going to do in order to show “transparency”. What happened with that? I think the fact that the prosecutor’s office has deliberately kept info out of the hands of the GJ, shows that the system is corrupt.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 20:24
You would be absolutely correct. Transparency has nothing to do with what/how McCullough did/presented the GJ – in spite of everything he said. If you watch the press conference you can see his pants catch on fire (I tease) I only wish. How effective would that be? If each time they lied, their pants actually caught fire.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 21:51
That would work for me. Definitely.
Ronald Woolever December 15th, 2014 at 11:32
What you are saying is true. Grand Juries have those discretionary powers, at least the do in my state, but again I have seen the workings of they Grand Juries and as often as not they simply follow the lead of the prosecutor. I don’t really know the make up of this particular jury so it is difficult to speculate, but I am leaning towards a compliant jury. There is enough evidence from this DA’s personal history to make this proceeding suspect. I will be waiting for the DOJ’s report with great interest.
Mainah December 15th, 2014 at 13:25
What’s his personal history? Do you have any links? I am interested to see the DOJ’s report as well. What shocks me, is the Garner case. That was filmed and was an obvious choke hold and yet … no indictment. That one really shocked me. It was on film!
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 11:21
He should be in jail for misconduct.
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 11:22
Hey Carla! My comment has the f word in it but isn’t directed at any one. Any chance you can post that?
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 11:24
You got it. It had been a bit since I’d checked the board. Thanks for the reminder, yours was not the only one stuck!
Mainah December 14th, 2014 at 11:31
Thank you kindly!
epazote December 14th, 2014 at 18:03
He should be indicted for conspiracy to obstruct justice…a federal offense
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 18:07
Not that I disagree, but conspiracy requires a 2nd conspiratorial party and hard proof. It wouldn’t ever stick, nor would a judge allow the charge. The best we can hope for is that he’ll be forced to resign. Good luck getting another dept to hire him. No one wants the insurance or press risk.
epazote December 14th, 2014 at 18:18
I believe it can be established McCullogh conspired with Ferguson PD Chief and his staff of asst DA’s in preparing what evidence would be presented to the Grand Jury to assure Wilson would not be indicted.
The feds need to get this mess sorted out.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 20:39
I don’t think Jackson is smart enough to punch his way out of a cardboard box, much less engage in conspiracy. That said, I believe both he and Bob are guilty of a number of crimes only the feds can bring. It just depends on whether they think it will help or hurt the overall situation. I’m a firm believer in working through the truth and let the chips fall. But I’m not in charge, and I’m often wrong and a bad judge of results.
whatthe46 December 14th, 2014 at 19:00
surely there’s the D.A.’s office that knew what he was doing.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 20:32
He is the DA’s office. The head of the DA’s office.
whatthe46 December 14th, 2014 at 21:23
but, they colaborate with each other.
havtsay December 14th, 2014 at 10:55
I’m sure if he is known for “messing w/ ppl” and pulling people over excessively, the FBI will have all of the documentation they need. Not just the words of an angry mob.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 16:54
It was the feds that released this information, along with his history in Jennings.
havtsay December 14th, 2014 at 20:05
Really? I didn’t see this FED report. I saw a portion of a conversation.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 20:21
You mean much like everything we’ve seen on this case. It’s shameful the way information has been fragmented to the public. It’s easily googled.
havtsay December 14th, 2014 at 23:05
Exactly why I said what I said initially. There is no finding by the fbi that what this guy says is true. It’s just a part of a conversation. Nothing more.
Carla Akins December 15th, 2014 at 05:57
Not at all what I said, but believe what you want.
havtsay December 16th, 2014 at 14:45
I think you’d like to believe that Officer Wilson is known for harrassing these residents and that they all know him as “ears”. I’m pointing out that this comes from a biased witness whose story did not jive with forensic evidence therefore holds no credibility on it’s own. Shameful fragmenting of information not only comes from msm but also from people like you. Maybe i’m wrong but I doubt it.
OldLefty December 16th, 2014 at 15:24
It appears that EVERYONE is biased, starting with the prosecutor.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 10:19
Yeah. I wish he would’ve just not charged OW and been done wilth it. He just HAD to leave it up to a GJ and drag the inevitable out.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 15:39
That way, or the way he did it, looks like just another white wash.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 16:36
Of course it does. Whites have no morals, values and are inherently evil. They force blacks to commit crimes to feed their lust for killing. I know tons of whites who sit around their dinner tables conspiring against the black man. They offer no help, no kind words, no spritual camaraderie…only unfounded hatefulness. The black man on the otherhand is intrinsically good. His crime is justified. He teaches his family love and compassion for the white man while simultaneously being crucified. There will be many rooms in the Lords house but the black man will occupy them all.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 18:26
Of course it does. Whites have no morals, values and are inherently evil.
_________
From where do you get this hooey?
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 18:35
From people like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNFTfR6WycA and people like you who use the word “white wash” while ignoring the fact that Mike Brown was a criminal who tried to kill Officer Wilson.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 18:48
Thou dost project too much, Methinks.
I think you get this nonsense from from other people like you who have no problem with the violation of all legal protocol, because you wish to believe a pre-conceived notion.
There is too much conflicting evidence to be certain of anything.
By the way, white racists say the same thing as the people in your video.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 19:32
Of course. It’s always back to the WHITE racist. But we all know every race has bias against all other races. It’s human nature.
You, old man, have a problem with protocol. You will not adhere to the fact that a grand jury decided Officer Wilson acted in self defense. Because of your own preconceived notions, you are unhappy with the outcome. But the grand jury is legal, appropriate and justified in this case. So McCullough didn’t want to prosecute? You have to believe that you can win a case in court with evidence. Not with biased witnesses who hate white people and cops. By the way…the DOJ has been on this from the start. If McCullough was bad, Holder would’ve had him and Ferg PD by the balls. But we all know thats not how it went down.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 19:43
Of course. It’s always back to the WHITE racist
_______
According to you, we only get to talk about black racists.
“But the grand jury is legal, appropriate and justified in this case.”
_______
No it’d not. It violated EVERY protocol of grand jury proceedings.
He acted as a defense attorney for Wilson, in a secret proceeding with conflicting evidence, exculpatory evidence and testimony , with no one to cross examine and no judge.
I could say, with conflicting evidence presented by a prosecutor and police officer “biased witnesses who hate black people…” but I don’t know that any more than you know that there were “biased witnesses who hate black people.”
There is not that much Holder can do, which is why people often rely on civil suits.
Remember, this was like a trial, but with only one side.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 19:55
Every protocol was not violated. Wilson spoke to them. So what? That couldve worked against him. McCullough does not have to indict every person accused. The grand jury has to figure out if there is any foundation to the accusations against Wilson. They decided there was not. Are you trying to say that this has never happened before?
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 20:04
Go back to the quote from Scalia.
It was held in secret, with the trappings of a trial.
McCullough had an personal, emotional investment, and should have recused himself.
The grand jury only heard one side of evidence presented with no guidelines from the other side or a judge.
In the Richmond Newspapers v. Virginia, (1980) the Supreme Court declared that the press and public have a First Amendment right of access to criminal trials.
Justice William Brennan… “Open trials are bulwarks of our free and democratic government: Public access to court proceedings is one of the numerous ‘checks and balances’ of our system, because ‘contemporaneous review in the forum of public opinion is an effective restraint on possible abuse of judicial power.’ ”
In Press Enterprise v. Superior Court, “a shared right of the accused and the public, the common concern being the assurance of fairness.” And while those accused of crimes have a constitutional right to a “speedy and open trial,” they do not, the court has said, have a right to a private trial”
What McCulloch did was to shift the truth-seeking function of a criminal trial into the secret realm of the grand jury room.
That violated our collective public right to an open criminal justice system.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 20:35
Why should he recuse himself? Bc the likes of you say he can’t do his job? Kudos to him for calling BS!!
They released all testimony …they didnt have to.
You are the one mistaking this for a trial. The grand jury is a stepping stone to a trial and has been for a long time. There was no basis for indictment. What part of that don’t you understand? You act as though no one has ever been freed by a grand jury or not prosecuted by a prosecutor. It happens, you just don’t like it in this case.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 20:51
What part of no right to “have exculpatory evidence presented.” don’t YOU understand?
What part of one side don’t YOU understand?
Whom do you think the prosecutor was supposed to be “prosecuting”?
When the prosecutor operates a fund for the families of fallen officers (a nobel thing) and had his police officer dad killed by an African American, and others in the government are calling for a special prosecutor…he should recuse himself, because it looks fishy from the get-go.
Add to that, the fact that Wilson was incognito for a long time, (time enough to make up a story around the evidence, conflicting testimony and forensics, that for the entire proceeding jurors weighed the evidence in light of a law that was deemed unconstitutional almost 30 years ago. …
Whom do you think the prosecutor was supposed to be “prosecuting”?
*Hint; it wasn’t Michael Brown.
Again, we have no idea what really happened, and probably never will.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 21:23
You are saying “no right”. That doesnt mean you cannot present exculpatory evidence.
One side? There were witnesses to this crime who think the officer committed a crime and ones who did not. That is not one sided.
Again, a prosecutor DOES NOT have to indict bc the public wants him to. It’s based on evidence. THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTING AN INDICTMENT.
If McCullough was to step down in this case, it would be an admission that he was in some way bias towards blacks. Not a smart career move.
Wilson incognito was the smartest desicion he made. Whoever made it. (supposedly his lawyers). And you saying he had time enough to make up a story around the evidence is grasping. You can’t make up forensics. They tell their own tale. And it just so happens they tell a story of a man that went for a cops gun, punched him, was shot repeatedly and failed to surrender before the final shot from 10 ft away.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 21:39
One side? There were witnesses to this crime who think the officer committed a crime and ones who did not. That is not one sided.
_______
What is one sided is that there was no one representing Michael Brown or cross examining or brining in other evidence.
The prosector is supposed to try for probable cause, while here he clearly wanted to clear officer Wilson.
You can’t make up forensics….but you can take them out of context.
The evidence does not support that he went for his gun or that he didn’t, (cross examination would have brought more to light) OR punched him, while the friend said the officer pulled him into the car.
That is why we needed a public trial.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 22:06
He presented all witnesses. Witnesses spoke for both sides. The prosecutor never thought it should go to trial and the grand jury agreed.
Dorian Johnson test was equivalent to witness #40. He didnt even hear a second gunshot.
Like Officer Wilson said, it’s not likely that a po would pull a suspect into the car with him. Esp someone who has 80lbs on you. And the evidence certainly does support that he went for his gun and punched him. There are pics of the bruise on his face and Mike was shot in the finger leaving blood inside the vehicle and on the officers clothes.
A trial wouldve been fine but the grand jury basically said it was a waste of time and money. I will have faith that considering they met for 5 weeks, lived and breathed it, they know more than you or I. Goodnight.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 06:47
There were 16 witnesses to 3 who saw him put his hands up and surrender.
5-7 said Michael Brown did not charge the officer.
6-7 said Wilson repeatedly fired on Brown after he was down.
This would never have been allowed to go unchallenged in a trial.
Add that to the fact that McCulloch had deeply personal reasons to defend, not prosecute the shooter…
That Wilson was previously fired from a Missouri police department disbanded due to racial issues, among other reasons..
That the Mound City Bar Association, had asked McCulloch to recuse himself indicating that there is a vast amount of distrust in McCulloch’s ability to deal with this case properly….
That the officers who interviewed Wilson after the shooting did not record the conversation…and the medical examiner did not take photographs, nor measurements at the scene of the crime…
That Wilson drove himself back to the police station, put his own gun into evidence and quickly washed blood off his hands without anyone photographing them first…
There is a reason why they say you can indict a ham sandwich; the grand jury always rules the way the prosecutor wants them to.
That is why there is no rational reason for confidence here.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 10:27
I’ve said it 15 times. McCullough didn’t feel evidence supported indictment. Are you trying to say that he HAD to push for an indictiment even though he felt there shouldnt be one?
Not Officer Wilsons fault that people didn’t do their jobs. Shit happens.
Who gives a crap what the Mound City Bar Association wants? It’s not their decision to make.
Wilson had no complaints or diciplinary action in Jennings.
Finally, there were around sixty witnesses to this incident. Which means 25% of them see the same or partially the same thing as Dorian Johnson. And there you have it.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 11:55
I’ve said it 15 times. McCullough didn’t feel evidence supported indictment.
_______
And I’ve said it 15 times.
Many people don’t believe that his motives were above board but based upon his own wishful thinking, hence, the prosecutorial farce, and that is why the Mound City Bar’s opinion matters.
They represent the standard.
“Are you trying to say that he HAD to push for an indictment even though he felt there shouldn’t be one?”
Yes. That is his job.
If he could not do it, he should have recused himself.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 12:20
You’re basically saying screw the evidence that supports no indictment. The mob rules. It’s like supporting a salem witch hunt.
McCullough could’ve just failed to indict, period. Instead he brought it to a grand jury. McCullough has his bias just as humans all do. But if there is reasonable doubt, you cannot hide from that. I read every piece of the testimony. I came away thinking that Mike Brown was trying to impress Dorian Johnson that day. He stole and abused and instead of being paranoid he may be caught, he chose to blatantly expose himself to police w/ cigars in hand. He was not afraid of Officer Wilson, he thought his size and intimidation tactics put him above the law. It did with the store owner and he thought it would with Officer Wilson. There was also the fact that he refused to get out of the road. A simple request that wouldve saved him his life. But he chose to challenge the officer instead. It really shows how delusional this young man was. It shows his frame of mind. And however juvenile the behavior, the fact that he was 6’5 and 290 lbs changes the game when you attack someone. He had no business fighting at the vehicle w/ an officer. Even Dorian Johnson said that Mike was very angry. Mikes behavior cost him his life. Period.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 12:44
You’re basically saying screw the evidence that DOES support indictment.
You’re basically saying screw the legal procedure because the prosecutor chooses to believe the police, in spite of the botched chain of evidence, police AND prosecution protocol.
McCullough brought it to the grand jury, because he could control what they would hear, with no one speaking for the other side.
“. He was not afraid of Officer Wilson, he thought his size and intimidation tactics put him above the law”
That is YOUR wishful thinking.
It is as likely that (especially with his past and the way it was handled), that it was Officer Wilson who believed that HIS being armed and being a cop using HIS intimidation tactics put him above the law”.
We will never know.
If it did happen the way Wilson said it did, they botched it so badly, that we will never know and it will always smell bad.
If the police treated the white kids in my nice white, affluent suburb, who behave EXACTLY like they say Michael Brown did, half the high school would be dead, but here, the police think of themselves as a benevolent force that protects the young and stupid kids from their young and stupid selves.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 13:16
Bullshit. The white kids in your suburb don’t behave like Mike did. When is the last time one of them punched a po and put their hands on his gun?
Police officers are not paid to be assaulted. They don’t have to risk their life when a felon charges them. They don’t have to hope that the felon (yes, Mike Brown is a felon at that pt) decides he won’t kill him after he tackles him.
Btw, the prosecutor didnt chose to believe him. There is no evidence, EVIDENCE that things did not happen the way Officer Wilson said they did. There is also no evidence that Mike Brown surrendered w/ his hands up. Only a few people saw it like that as opposed to many who did not.
Like I said, I will trust in the grand jury and my own eyes and ears.
There are no perfect cases where everyone does exactly what they need to do to prove themselves innocent. Maybe Officer Wilson pulled Mike into the vehicle, assaulted him and them chased him down to kill him in cold blood because Mike called him a name. But you and I both know that’s ridiculous. Black or white, it’s ridiculous.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 13:49
Bullshit. The white kids in your suburb don’t behave like Mike did. When is the last time one of them punched a po and put their hands on his gun?
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1) You’d be surprised.
2) We don’t know what happened. We don’t have cops who almost hit kids with their truck or slammed the door into the kid and “his arm came out the window, and that’s the first initial contact that they had. The officer grabbed, he grabbed ahold of Big Mike’s shirt around the neck area.”
See, because of the botching of the chain of evidence, we don’t know which of these stories are true.
There is also no evidence that Mike Brown surrendered w/ his hands up. Only a few people saw it like that as opposed to many who did not.
There is also;
age 13
Prosecutor Kathy Alizadeh: “Now, just in the interest of full disclosure, you and I had a conversation yesterday about your testimony today, correct?
Sergeant: “That is correct.”
Page 64
Prosecutor Kathy Alizadeh: “Is it still, you still stay with the fact that Michael Brown had his hands up and was charging?”
Sergeant: “That’s what Darren told me he was charging at me.”
Page 73
Prosecutor Kathy Alizadeh: “So at the time when he had his hands raised and he was charging at him, he shot, but it wasn’t at that time he didn’t have his hands like going for a weapon.”
Sergeant: “I don’t remember, I don’t recall.”
As for; Like I said, I will trust in the grand jury and my own eyes and ears.
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That’s the problem.
If this was done properly, OK, but if anyone wanted to cover up an illegitimate police shooting, they would do what Wilson and McCullough did.
And you own eyes and ears weren’t there.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 14:57
No, I was not there. My eyes did see Mike Brown in that video having no regard for his fellow human being. I saw exactly what his behavior was like 15 mins before being killed. No matter what you say, it is relevent. In the Trayvon Martin case, it was relevant, too. And everyone played that video over and over again.
Cut to 15 mins later. Mike is confronted by a police officer to get the fuck out of the road.(maybe it was said like that) Regardless, Mike decides he doesn’t like officers authority and doesn’t comply. Another red flag. If you rob and abuse a store owner, then walk down the middle of the road w/ stolen goods in hands that is another “FUCK YOU” to your fellow human being and that includes police officers. If Mike was worried about being arrested he would have complied. He is the one defying logic and authority. Unfortunately, his behavior made it impossible for a grand jury to blame the officer for his death.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 15:22
No, I was not there. My eyes did see Mike Brown in that video having no regard for his fellow human being
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And MY eyes have seen the nice white boys do the same in our local BP, CVS, grocery store ( that’s why he put up the sign, “no more than 1 teenager at a time”) not too mention nice white frat boys at Penn State, and the Stubenville kids
All are treated with a ‘boys will be boys” mentality.
The skin color is the only thing that is different here.
Everything you say is fine and dandy, but it has not been proven, and evidence and the procedure has been too tainted to ever know.
You seem to just want to believe it so very badly.
We also have Jordan Miles and had Jonny Gammage here.
The lesson there is, if you are black, you better run or fight for your life.
Unfortunately, the prosecutor has made any fair assessment impossible.
Not to mention our own forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht;
“The only way that you have an upward trajectory is with the arm like this [Holds his hand up to shoulder height, palm facing forward] and the shots fired. And you have two shots that strike Michael Brown in the chest, and they both have a downward trajectory. How do you get that with a 6’5” guy being shot by a 6′ guy? And then you have two wounds in the head that a parallel to the ground. When you put the body on the table, their perpendicular.
The only way you can get that is that his body is continuing to fall. The scenario is that Michael Brown was shot first in the arm, then as he is beginning to fall he is shot in the chest, and as he continues to fall he shot in the head. And he falls prone. He’s 30-35′ away.
What happened at the car is significant mostly because, and no one talks about this, for what was Officer Darren Wilson’s attitude? Was he teed off? “This kid has just struggled with me with my gun” and the kid is now 30-35’ away. He’s unarmed, he’s in short pants and a t-shirt. Where is this imminent threat? If he believes that this kid is a threat to his life then how in the world can he be out there as a police officer, dealing with people that have weapons, dealing with people that are really berzerk and people that really pose a serious threat?
No, this is [an] absurd scenario as far as I’m concerned in terms of Wilson’s defense.”
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 16:21
“Our own pathologist” ?
Seems you want to believe so badly that this cop who has never been cited for anything personally has executed a young man.
If Mike was charging the officer, his head wouldve been down. It’s very hard to charge at someone with your head up.
I’m sure after having had a physical altercation with Mike Brown, the officer was in shock. That would be the only possible scenario. Then, mind you, Mike wasnt shot until he turned around and charged the officer.
Like I said before, Mike had no regard for anyone who held authority over him. When an officer says jump, you say how high. Learned that at 5yrs old along with staying out of the middle of the street and paying for what you take.
To hear you say it, white boys are the real problem here.Your disgust for them is evident. Maybe you should move out of your plush suburban neighborhood and move to the hood where you can live amongst the poor, pitiful, put upon blacks.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 16:39
Seems you want to believe so badly that this cop who has never been cited for anything personally has executed a young man.
_________
Nice straw man.
1) He was part of; “The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired.”
(We don’t know if he was part of the problem.).
2) I never said, he “personally has executed a young man.”
I said that because the proceedings were so flawed, that we don’t know what happened.
Again, (this is getting old), everything you say depends upon believing the officer’s word, when that is what is up for dispute.
Re; “To hear you say it, white boys are the real problem here.Your disgust for them is evident.”
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That is another straw man. And there is nothing evident.
You are sounding like the 11 year old drama queen who accuses their parents of hating them wanting to ruin their live because they won’t allow them to drop out of school and join the circus.
I think that the police treat the white boys in my community correctly, and should treat the black boys in the black communities in the same way.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 17:00
I believe the officer bc the grand jury believed him. If a grand jury was not part of the process, then a trial would’ve been imminent. Thats not how it works. Grand jury has spoken so get over yourself and your bias. Hands up dont shoot is a farce.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 17:34
I believe the officer bc the grand jury believed him.
________
The grand jury does what the prosecutor want s them to do.
That’s why they say you can indict a ham sandwich.
And remember the jury spoke in OJ’s and Casey Anthony trials, yet the public doesn’t believe them.
As for “get over yourself and your bias.”
I think the term bias is more applicable to the one who is certain in the face of such doubt and unusual proceedings than it is to the one who simply says that we don’t know.
http://www.law.columbia.edu/media_inquiries/news_events/2014/november2014/Facts-on-Ferguson-Grand-Jury
“Hands up don’t shoot is a farce.”
Don’t you wish?
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 18:00
3 out of 60 said his hands were up. Farce.
As for OJ and Anthony, exactly! The jury has spoken.
The grand jury does not always do what the prosecutor wants. Ridiculous statement.
You want to believe there is some scary white system out there that only cares about justice when it applies to their own race. That is more ridiculous.
I have a feeling there will not be sufficient evidence for the DOJ investigation either. You can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip.
I have bias and I admit it. You have bias and deny, deny, deny. Typical dem.
Carla Akins December 18th, 2014 at 18:05
You only heard from the witnesses McCullough called, not all and as for OJ and Anthony – they had jury trials, a completely different animal than a grand jury.
As for people caring more about whites – it’s a proven scientific fact. It’s referred to as the psychology of bias and Stanford even offers an online test considered the worlds best indicator. http://fairandimpartialpolicing.squarespace.com/bias
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 18:13
16 out of 3 said his hands were up.
The grand jury does not always do what the prosecutor wants.
EVERYBODY knows that .
In a bid to make prosecutors more accountable for their actions, Chief Judge Sol Wachtler had proposed that the state scrap the grand jury system of bringing criminal indictments.
Wachtler, said district attorneys now have so much influence on grand juries that “by and large” they could get them to “indict a ham sandwich.”
The New York Times noted that Wachtler believed grand juries “operate more often as the prosecutor’s pawn than the citizen’s shield.”
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/02/18/opinion/do-we-need-grand-juries.html
That is because they only hear what the prosecutor wants them to hear.
It is clearly YOU who have the bias because I don’t know what happened. Typical rep?
Again this has as much credibility as OJ and Casey Anthony.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 20:03
And what is this “secret proceeding”? I would say that it’s been pretty transparent. Did you see how witness #40 was destroyed by the interviewer? If it was white washed, surely they wouldve taken her at her word. Instead they did their job impeccably.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 20:20
Grand Juries are secret.
No they did not.
You seem to be confusing a grand jury with an actual trial.
Carla Akins December 17th, 2014 at 04:51
Like this reliable witness: http://www.alan.com/2014/12/16/report-darren-wilsons-key-witness-lied-was-nowhere-near-the-shooting/
The entire Ferguson department is known to harass citizens in an effort to generate fines, therefore, funds for the city. The DOJ has released a report making this fact. The comments about his ears is ridiculous and juvenile and should be left alone – his behavior as an officer is a different matter.
Or things reports filed with the department prior to the Brown shooting, or those reports when he worked in Jennings?
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 10:01
Can’t find this “report”. Also can’t find where Officer Wilson has any record to speak of. None whatsoever. He had no problems in Jennings either. His dept was shut down..not his fault when he had no complaints or disciplinary action attached to his own name. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading this bullshit.
Carla Akins December 17th, 2014 at 13:26
The Ferguson police have indicated use of force complaints were not kept in an officer’s personnel file.So citizen complaints are all that’s available. Although Wilson had no specific complaints in his Jennings file – we clearly have no way of knowing. What we do know is that the totality of the department was out of hand, yet he did nothing.
A newly-released video purports to show Missouri police officer Darren Wilson threatening to arrest a man for filming him 10 months before fatally shooting….http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/17/darren-wilson-lock-your-ass_n_6170746.html
Of course there’s also the information we know. Wilson washed off the blood. He returned to the department alone without an escort while still in possession of his weapon. He checked in his own weapon. He remained at the scene and most importantly he did not complete an incident report within 24 hours .All of which is against protocol.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 15:59
In other words, there is no proof whatsoever that Officer Wilson had any complaints of unusual use of force. There have been no complaints filed officially on Officer Wilson. So yes, we can come to the conclusion that he did nothing wrong.
As far as that video goes, this was a 16 second account. You have no idea what was going on before or after the video. What it does highlight is the fact that he was a white man. Shoots the “racist” theory in the foot, huh?
“The blood” Wilson washed off probably would’ve helped his case. He is a young officer w/ no prior experience in shootings. He was told by his superior to return to the station and given advice by his attorneys to not file and incident report. So actually, he did exactly what he was told to do.
The most important thing is that there was no forensic evidence that he executed Mike Brown. There is blood evidence showing Mike was moving towards the officer when shot. There is no evidence his arms were raised in surrender. As we all know, you don’t move towards an officer when being arrested unless you have anger problems or are an idiot. Esp when you just punched him in the head and tried to shoot him w/ his own gun. But we also know that Mike Brown thought he was invincible, hence, abusing the store owner then brazenly walking down the middle of the street w/ cigars in hand after seeing numerous cops in the area. Not to mention, being shot several times and refusing to surrender.
It’s funny. You are accusing Darren Wilson of being a criminal w/ no evidence while protecting someone who committed numerous crimes right in front of your face. You either support criminals or not. If you feel Darren Wilson committed a crime then support him fully as you do Mike Brown.
havtsay December 14th, 2014 at 11:55
I’m sure if he is known for “messing w/ ppl” and pulling people over excessively, the FBI will have all of the documentation they need. Not just the words of an angry mob.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 17:54
It was the feds that released this information, along with his history in Jennings.
havtsay December 14th, 2014 at 21:05
Really? I didn’t see this FED report. I saw a portion of a conversation.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 21:21
You mean much like everything we’ve seen on this case. It’s shameful the way information has been fragmented to the public. It’s easily googled.
havtsay December 15th, 2014 at 00:05
Exactly why I said what I said initially. There is no finding by the fbi that what this guy says is true. It’s just a part of a conversation. Nothing more.
Carla Akins December 15th, 2014 at 06:57
Not at all what I said, but believe what you want.
havtsay December 16th, 2014 at 15:45
I think you’d like to believe that Officer Wilson is known for harrassing these residents and that they all know him as “ears”. I’m pointing out that this comes from a biased witness whose story did not jive with forensic evidence therefore holds no credibility on it’s own. Shameful fragmenting of information not only comes from msm but also from people like you. Maybe i’m wrong but I doubt it.
OldLefty December 16th, 2014 at 16:24
It appears that EVERYONE is biased, starting with the prosecutor.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 11:19
Yeah. I wish he would’ve just not charged OW and been done wilth it. He just HAD to leave it up to a GJ and drag the inevitable out.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 16:39
That way, or the way he did it, looks like just another white wash.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 17:36
Of course it does. Whites have no morals, values and are inherently evil. They force blacks to commit crimes to feed their lust for killing. I know tons of whites who sit around their dinner tables conspiring against the black man. They offer no help, no kind words, no spritual camaraderie…only unfounded hatefulness. The black man on the otherhand is intrinsically good. His crime is justified. He teaches his family love and compassion for the white man while simultaneously being crucified. There will be many rooms in the Lords house but the black man will occupy them all.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 19:26
Of course it does. Whites have no morals, values and are inherently evil.
_________
From where do you get this hooey?
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 19:35
From people like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNFTfR6WycA and people like you who use the word “white wash” while ignoring the fact that Mike Brown was a criminal who tried to kill Officer Wilson.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 19:48
Thou dost project too much, Methinks.
I think you get this nonsense from from other people like you who have no problem with the violation of all legal protocol, because you wish to believe a pre-conceived notion.
There is too much conflicting evidence to be certain of anything.
By the way, white racists say the same thing as the people in your video.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 20:32
Of course. It’s always back to the WHITE racist. But we all know every race has bias against all other races. It’s human nature.
You, old man, have a problem with protocol. You will not adhere to the fact that a grand jury decided Officer Wilson acted in self defense. Because of your own preconceived notions, you are unhappy with the outcome. But the grand jury is legal, appropriate and justified in this case. So McCullough didn’t want to prosecute? You have to believe that you can win a case in court with evidence. Not with biased witnesses who hate white people and cops. By the way…the DOJ has been on this from the start. If McCullough was bad, Holder would’ve had him and Ferg PD by the balls. But we all know thats not how it went down.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 20:43
Of course. It’s always back to the WHITE racist
_______
According to you, we only get to talk about black racists.
“But the grand jury is legal, appropriate and justified in this case.”
_______
No it’d not. It violated EVERY protocol of grand jury proceedings.
He acted as a defense attorney for Wilson, in a secret proceeding with conflicting evidence, exculpatory evidence and testimony , with no one to cross examine and no judge.
I could say, with conflicting evidence presented by a prosecutor and police officer “biased witnesses who hate black people…” but I don’t know that any more than you know that there were “biased witnesses who hate black people.”
There is not that much Holder can do, which is why people often rely on civil suits.
Remember, this was like a trial, but with only one side.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 20:55
Every protocol was not violated. Wilson spoke to them. So what? That couldve worked against him. McCullough does not have to indict every person accused. The grand jury has to figure out if there is any foundation to the accusations against Wilson. They decided there was not. Are you trying to say that this has never happened before?
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 21:04
Go back to the quote from Scalia.
It was held in secret, with the trappings of a trial.
McCullough had an personal, emotional investment, and should have recused himself.
The grand jury only heard one side of evidence presented with no guidelines from the other side or a judge.
In the Richmond Newspapers v. Virginia, (1980) the Supreme Court declared that the press and public have a First Amendment right of access to criminal trials.
Justice William Brennan… “Open trials are bulwarks of our free and democratic government: Public access to court proceedings is one of the numerous ‘checks and balances’ of our system, because ‘contemporaneous review in the forum of public opinion is an effective restraint on possible abuse of judicial power.’ ”
In Press Enterprise v. Superior Court, “a shared right of the accused and the public, the common concern being the assurance of fairness.” And while those accused of crimes have a constitutional right to a “speedy and open trial,” they do not, the court has said, have a right to a private trial”
What McCulloch did was to shift the truth-seeking function of a criminal trial into the secret realm of the grand jury room.
That violated our collective public right to an open criminal justice system.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 21:35
Why should he recuse himself? Bc the likes of you say he can’t do his job? Kudos to him for calling BS!!
They released all testimony …they didnt have to.
You are the one mistaking this for a trial. The grand jury is a stepping stone to a trial and has been for a long time. There was no basis for indictment. What part of that don’t you understand? You act as though no one has ever been freed by a grand jury or not prosecuted by a prosecutor. It happens, you just don’t like it in this case.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 21:51
What part of no right to “have exculpatory evidence presented.” don’t YOU understand?
What part of one side don’t YOU understand?
Whom do you think the prosecutor was supposed to be “prosecuting”?
When the prosecutor operates a fund for the families of fallen officers (a nobel thing) and had his police officer dad killed by an African American, and others in the government are calling for a special prosecutor…he should recuse himself, because it looks fishy from the get-go.
Add to that, the fact that Wilson was incognito for a long time, (time enough to make up a story around the evidence, conflicting testimony and forensics, that for the entire proceeding jurors weighed the evidence in light of a law that was deemed unconstitutional almost 30 years ago. …
Whom do you think the prosecutor was supposed to be “prosecuting”?
*Hint; it wasn’t Michael Brown.
Again, we have no idea what really happened, and probably never will.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 22:23
You are saying “no right”. That doesnt mean you cannot present exculpatory evidence.
One side? There were witnesses to this crime who think the officer committed a crime and ones who did not. That is not one sided.
Again, a prosecutor DOES NOT have to indict bc the public wants him to. It’s based on evidence. THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTING AN INDICTMENT.
If McCullough was to step down in this case, it would be an admission that he was in some way bias towards blacks. Not a smart career move.
Wilson incognito was the smartest desicion he made. Whoever made it. (supposedly his lawyers). And you saying he had time enough to make up a story around the evidence is grasping. You can’t make up forensics. They tell their own tale. And it just so happens they tell a story of a man that went for a cops gun, punched him, was shot repeatedly and failed to surrender before the final shot from 10 ft away.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 22:39
One side? There were witnesses to this crime who think the officer committed a crime and ones who did not. That is not one sided.
_______
What is one sided is that there was no one representing Michael Brown or cross examining or brining in other evidence.
The prosector is supposed to try for probable cause, while here he clearly wanted to clear officer Wilson.
You can’t make up forensics….but you can take them out of context.
The evidence does not support that he went for his gun or that he didn’t, (cross examination would have brought more to light) OR punched him, while the friend said the officer pulled him into the car.
That is why we needed a public trial.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 23:06
He presented all witnesses. Witnesses spoke for both sides. The prosecutor never thought it should go to trial and the grand jury agreed.
Dorian Johnson test was equivalent to witness #40. He didnt even hear a second gunshot.
Like Officer Wilson said, it’s not likely that a po would pull a suspect into the car with him. Esp someone who has 80lbs on you. And the evidence certainly does support that he went for his gun and punched him. There are pics of the bruise on his face and Mike was shot in the finger leaving blood inside the vehicle and on the officers clothes.
A trial wouldve been fine but the grand jury basically said it was a waste of time and money. I will have faith that considering they met for 5 weeks, lived and breathed it, they know more than you or I. Goodnight.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 07:47
There were 16 witnesses to 3 who saw him put his hands up and surrender.
5-7 said Michael Brown did not charge the officer.
6-7 said Wilson repeatedly fired on Brown after he was down.
This would never have been allowed to go unchallenged in a trial.
Add that to the fact that McCulloch had deeply personal reasons to defend, not prosecute the shooter…
That Wilson was previously fired from a Missouri police department disbanded due to racial issues, among other reasons..
That the Mound City Bar Association, had asked McCulloch to recuse himself indicating that there is a vast amount of distrust in McCulloch’s ability to deal with this case properly….
That the officers who interviewed Wilson after the shooting did not record the conversation…and the medical examiner did not take photographs, nor measurements at the scene of the crime…
That Wilson drove himself back to the police station, put his own gun into evidence and quickly washed blood off his hands without anyone photographing them first…
There is a reason why they say you can indict a ham sandwich; the grand jury always rules the way the prosecutor wants them to.
That is why there is no rational reason for confidence here.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 11:27
I’ve said it 15 times. McCullough didn’t feel evidence supported indictment. Are you trying to say that he HAD to push for an indictiment even though he felt there shouldnt be one?
Not Officer Wilsons fault that people didn’t do their jobs. Shit happens.
Who gives a crap what the Mound City Bar Association wants? It’s not their decision to make.
Wilson had no complaints or diciplinary action in Jennings.
Finally, there were around sixty witnesses to this incident. Which means 25% of them see the same or partially the same thing as Dorian Johnson. And there you have it.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 12:55
I’ve said it 15 times. McCullough didn’t feel evidence supported indictment.
_______
And I’ve said it 15 times.
Many people don’t believe that his motives were above board but based upon his own wishful thinking, hence, the prosecutorial farce, and that is why the Mound City Bar’s opinion matters.
They represent the standard.
“Are you trying to say that he HAD to push for an indictment even though he felt there shouldn’t be one?”
Yes. That is his job.
If he could not do it, he should have recused himself.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 13:20
You’re basically saying screw the evidence that supports no indictment. The mob rules. It’s like supporting a salem witch hunt.
McCullough could’ve just failed to indict, period. Instead he brought it to a grand jury. McCullough has his bias just as humans all do. But if there is reasonable doubt, you cannot hide from that. I read every piece of the testimony. I came away thinking that Mike Brown was trying to impress Dorian Johnson that day. He stole and abused and instead of being paranoid he may be caught, he chose to blatantly expose himself to police w/ cigars in hand. He was not afraid of Officer Wilson, he thought his size and intimidation tactics put him above the law. It did with the store owner and he thought it would with Officer Wilson. There was also the fact that he refused to get out of the road. A simple request that wouldve saved him his life. But he chose to challenge the officer instead. It really shows how delusional this young man was. It shows his frame of mind. And however juvenile the behavior, the fact that he was 6’5 and 290 lbs changes the game when you attack someone. He had no business fighting at the vehicle w/ an officer. Even Dorian Johnson said that Mike was very angry. Mikes behavior cost him his life. Period.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 13:44
You’re basically saying screw the evidence that DOES support indictment.
You’re basically saying screw the legal procedure because the prosecutor chooses to believe the police, in spite of the botched chain of evidence, police AND prosecution protocol.
McCullough brought it to the grand jury, because he could control what they would hear, with no one speaking for the other side.
“. He was not afraid of Officer Wilson, he thought his size and intimidation tactics put him above the law”
That is YOUR wishful thinking.
It is as likely that (especially with his past and the way it was handled), that it was Officer Wilson who believed that HIS being armed and being a cop using HIS intimidation tactics put him above the law”.
We will never know.
If it did happen the way Wilson said it did, they botched it so badly, that we will never know and it will always smell bad.
If the police treated the white kids in my nice white, affluent suburb, who behave EXACTLY like they say Michael Brown did, half the high school would be dead, but here, the police think of themselves as a benevolent force that protects the young and stupid kids from their young and stupid selves.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 14:16
Bullshit. The white kids in your suburb don’t behave like Mike did. When is the last time one of them punched a po and put their hands on his gun?
Police officers are not paid to be assaulted. They don’t have to risk their life when a felon charges them. They don’t have to hope that the felon (yes, Mike Brown is a felon at that pt) decides he won’t kill him after he tackles him.
Btw, the prosecutor didnt chose to believe him. There is no evidence, EVIDENCE that things did not happen the way Officer Wilson said they did. There is also no evidence that Mike Brown surrendered w/ his hands up. Only a few people saw it like that as opposed to many who did not.
Like I said, I will trust in the grand jury and my own eyes and ears.
There are no perfect cases where everyone does exactly what they need to do to prove themselves innocent. Maybe Officer Wilson pulled Mike into the vehicle, assaulted him and them chased him down to kill him in cold blood because Mike called him a name. But you and I both know that’s ridiculous. Black or white, it’s ridiculous.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 14:49
Bullshit. The white kids in your suburb don’t behave like Mike did. When is the last time one of them punched a po and put their hands on his gun?
_______
1) You’d be surprised.
2) We don’t know what happened. We don’t have cops who almost hit kids with their truck or slammed the door into the kid and “his arm came out the window, and that’s the first initial contact that they had. The officer grabbed, he grabbed ahold of Big Mike’s shirt around the neck area.”
See, because of the botching of the chain of evidence, we don’t know which of these stories are true.
There is also no evidence that Mike Brown surrendered w/ his hands up. Only a few people saw it like that as opposed to many who did not.
There is also;
age 13
Prosecutor Kathy Alizadeh: “Now, just in the interest of full disclosure, you and I had a conversation yesterday about your testimony today, correct?
Sergeant: “That is correct.”
Page 64
Prosecutor Kathy Alizadeh: “Is it still, you still stay with the fact that Michael Brown had his hands up and was charging?”
Sergeant: “That’s what Darren told me he was charging at me.”
Page 73
Prosecutor Kathy Alizadeh: “So at the time when he had his hands raised and he was charging at him, he shot, but it wasn’t at that time he didn’t have his hands like going for a weapon.”
Sergeant: “I don’t remember, I don’t recall.”
As for; Like I said, I will trust in the grand jury and my own eyes and ears.
_______
That’s the problem.
If this was done properly, OK, but if anyone wanted to cover up an illegitimate police shooting, they would do what Wilson and McCullough did.
And you own eyes and ears weren’t there.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 15:57
No, I was not there. My eyes did see Mike Brown in that video having no regard for his fellow human being. I saw exactly what his behavior was like 15 mins before being killed. No matter what you say, it is relevent. In the Trayvon Martin case, it was relevant, too. And everyone played that video over and over again.
Cut to 15 mins later. Mike is confronted by a police officer to get the fuck out of the road.(maybe it was said like that) Regardless, Mike decides he doesn’t like officers authority and doesn’t comply. Another red flag. If you rob and abuse a store owner, then walk down the middle of the road w/ stolen goods in hands that is another “FUCK YOU” to your fellow human being and that includes police officers. If Mike was worried about being arrested he would have complied. He is the one defying logic and authority. Unfortunately, his behavior made it impossible for a grand jury to blame the officer for his death.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 16:22
No, I was not there. My eyes did see Mike Brown in that video having no regard for his fellow human being
______
And MY eyes have seen the nice white boys do the same in our local BP, CVS, grocery store ( that’s why he put up the sign, “no more than 1 teenager at a time”) not too mention nice white frat boys at Penn State, and the Stubenville kids
All are treated with a ‘boys will be boys” mentality.
The skin color is the only thing that is different here.
Everything you say is fine and dandy, but it has not been proven, and evidence and the procedure has been too tainted to ever know.
You seem to just want to believe it so very badly.
We also have Jordan Miles and had Jonny Gammage here.
The lesson there is, if you are black, you better run or fight for your life.
Unfortunately, the prosecutor has made any fair assessment impossible.
Not to mention our own forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht;
“The only way that you have an upward trajectory is with the arm like this [Holds his hand up to shoulder height, palm facing forward] and the shots fired. And you have two shots that strike Michael Brown in the chest, and they both have a downward trajectory. How do you get that with a 6’5” guy being shot by a 6′ guy? And then you have two wounds in the head that a parallel to the ground. When you put the body on the table, their perpendicular.
The only way you can get that is that his body is continuing to fall. The scenario is that Michael Brown was shot first in the arm, then as he is beginning to fall he is shot in the chest, and as he continues to fall he shot in the head. And he falls prone. He’s 30-35′ away.
What happened at the car is significant mostly because, and no one talks about this, for what was Officer Darren Wilson’s attitude? Was he teed off? “This kid has just struggled with me with my gun” and the kid is now 30-35’ away. He’s unarmed, he’s in short pants and a t-shirt. Where is this imminent threat? If he believes that this kid is a threat to his life then how in the world can he be out there as a police officer, dealing with people that have weapons, dealing with people that are really berzerk and people that really pose a serious threat?
No, this is [an] absurd scenario as far as I’m concerned in terms of Wilson’s defense.”
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 17:21
“Our own pathologist” ?
Seems you want to believe so badly that this cop who has never been cited for anything personally has executed a young man.
If Mike was charging the officer, his head wouldve been down. It’s very hard to charge at someone with your head up.
I’m sure after having had a physical altercation with Mike Brown, the officer was in shock. That would be the only possible scenario. Then, mind you, Mike wasnt shot until he turned around and charged the officer.
Like I said before, Mike had no regard for anyone who held authority over him. When an officer says jump, you say how high. Learned that at 5yrs old along with staying out of the middle of the street and paying for what you take.
To hear you say it, white boys are the real problem here.Your disgust for them is evident. Maybe you should move out of your plush suburban neighborhood and move to the hood where you can live amongst the poor, pitiful, put upon blacks.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 17:39
Seems you want to believe so badly that this cop who has never been cited for anything personally has executed a young man.
_________
Nice straw man.
1) He was part of; “The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired.”
(We don’t know if he was part of the problem.).
2) I never said, he “personally has executed a young man.”
I said that because the proceedings were so flawed, that we don’t know what happened.
Again, (this is getting old), everything you say depends upon believing the officer’s word, when that is what is up for dispute.
Re; “To hear you say it, white boys are the real problem here.Your disgust for them is evident.”
_______
That is another straw man. And there is nothing evident.
You are sounding like the 11 year old drama queen who accuses their parents of hating them wanting to ruin their live because they won’t allow them to drop out of school and join the circus.
I think that the police treat the white boys in my community correctly, and should treat the black boys in the black communities in the same way.
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 18:00
I believe the officer bc the grand jury believed him. If a grand jury was not part of the process, then a trial would’ve been imminent. Thats not how it works. Grand jury has spoken so get over yourself and your bias. Hands up dont shoot is a farce.
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 18:34
I believe the officer bc the grand jury believed him.
________
The grand jury does what the prosecutor want s them to do.
That’s why they say you can indict a ham sandwich.
And remember the jury spoke in OJ’s and Casey Anthony trials, yet the public doesn’t believe them.
As for “get over yourself and your bias.”
I think the term bias is more applicable to the one who is certain in the face of such doubt and unusual proceedings than it is to the one who simply says that we don’t know.
http://www.law.columbia.edu/media_inquiries/news_events/2014/november2014/Facts-on-Ferguson-Grand-Jury
“Hands up don’t shoot is a farce.”
Don’t you wish?
havtsay December 18th, 2014 at 19:00
3 out of 60 said his hands were up. Farce.
As for OJ and Anthony, exactly! The jury has spoken.
The grand jury does not always do what the prosecutor wants. Ridiculous statement.
You want to believe there is some scary white system out there that only cares about justice when it applies to their own race. That is more ridiculous.
I have a feeling there will not be sufficient evidence for the DOJ investigation either. You can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip.
I have bias and I admit it. You have bias and deny, deny, deny. Typical dem.
Carla Akins December 18th, 2014 at 19:05
You only heard from the witnesses McCullough called, not all and as for OJ and Anthony – they had jury trials, a completely different animal than a grand jury.
As for people caring more about whites – it’s a proven scientific fact. It’s referred to as the psychology of bias and Stanford even offers an online test considered the worlds best indicator. http://fairandimpartialpolicing.squarespace.com/bias
OldLefty December 18th, 2014 at 19:13
16 out of 3 said his hands were up.
The grand jury does not always do what the prosecutor wants.
EVERYBODY knows that .
In a bid to make prosecutors more accountable for their actions, Chief Judge Sol Wachtler had proposed that the state scrap the grand jury system of bringing criminal indictments.
Wachtler, said district attorneys now have so much influence on grand juries that “by and large” they could get them to “indict a ham sandwich.”
The New York Times noted that Wachtler believed grand juries “operate more often as the prosecutor’s pawn than the citizen’s shield.”
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/02/18/opinion/do-we-need-grand-juries.html
That is because they only hear what the prosecutor wants them to hear.
It is clearly YOU who have the bias because I don’t know what happened. Typical rep?
Again this has as much credibility as OJ and Casey Anthony.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 21:03
And what is this “secret proceeding”? I would say that it’s been pretty transparent. Did you see how witness #40 was destroyed by the interviewer? If it was white washed, surely they wouldve taken her at her word. Instead they did their job impeccably.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 21:20
Grand Juries are secret.
No they did not.
You seem to be confusing a grand jury with an actual trial.
Carla Akins December 17th, 2014 at 05:51
Like this reliable witness: http://www.alan.com/2014/12/16/report-darren-wilsons-key-witness-lied-was-nowhere-near-the-shooting/
The entire Ferguson department is known to harass citizens in an effort to generate fines, therefore, funds for the city. The DOJ has released a report making this fact. The comments about his ears is ridiculous and juvenile and should be left alone – his behavior as an officer is a different matter.
Or things reports filed with the department prior to the Brown shooting, or those reports when he worked in Jennings?
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 11:01
Can’t find this “report”. Also can’t find where Officer Wilson has any record to speak of. None whatsoever. He had no problems in Jennings either. His dept was shut down..not his fault when he had no complaints or disciplinary action attached to his own name. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading this bullshit.
Carla Akins December 17th, 2014 at 14:26
The Ferguson police have indicated use of force complaints were not kept in an officer’s personnel file.So citizen complaints are all that’s available. Although Wilson had no specific complaints in his Jennings file – we clearly have no way of knowing. What we do know is that the totality of the department was out of hand, yet he did nothing.
A newly-released video purports to show Missouri police officer Darren Wilson threatening to arrest a man for filming him 10 months before fatally shooting….http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/17/darren-wilson-lock-your-ass_n_6170746.html
Of course there’s also the information we know. Wilson washed off the blood. He returned to the department alone without an escort while still in possession of his weapon. He checked in his own weapon. He remained at the scene and most importantly he did not complete an incident report within 24 hours .All of which is against protocol.
havtsay December 17th, 2014 at 16:59
In other words, there is no proof whatsoever that Officer Wilson had any complaints of unusual use of force. There have been no complaints filed officially on Officer Wilson. So yes, we can come to the conclusion that he did nothing wrong.
As far as that video goes, this was a 16 second account. You have no idea what was going on before or after the video. What it does highlight is the fact that he was a white man. Shoots the “racist” theory in the foot, huh?
“The blood” Wilson washed off probably would’ve helped his case. He is a young officer w/ no prior experience in shootings. He was told by his superior to return to the station and given advice by his attorneys to not file and incident report. So actually, he did exactly what he was told to do.
The most important thing is that there was no forensic evidence that he executed Mike Brown. There is blood evidence showing Mike was moving towards the officer when shot. There is no evidence his arms were raised in surrender. As we all know, you don’t move towards an officer when being arrested unless you have anger problems or are an idiot. Esp when you just punched him in the head and tried to shoot him w/ his own gun. But we also know that Mike Brown thought he was invincible, hence, abusing the store owner then brazenly walking down the middle of the street w/ cigars in hand after seeing numerous cops in the area. Not to mention, being shot several times and refusing to surrender.
It’s funny. You are accusing Darren Wilson of being a criminal w/ no evidence while protecting someone who committed numerous crimes right in front of your face. You either support criminals or not. If you feel Darren Wilson committed a crime then support him fully as you do Mike Brown.
mea_mark December 14th, 2014 at 12:06
McCulloch should spend the rest of his life in prison. The damage he has done to his community and the country warrants his removal society.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 16:52
And Tom Jackson should join him.
mea_mark December 14th, 2014 at 13:06
McCulloch should spend the rest of his life in prison. The damage he has done to his community and the country warrants his removal from society.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 17:52
And Tom Jackson should join him.
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 12:16
Wait, How was he shot while running away, put his hands in the air and turn around when all of the shots were in the front…except the shot to the hand while trying to take the officer’s gun. Sorry but another statement by Browns friend that has now been proven false. Also to those of you saying the DA should be in trouble for not presenting all of the evidence…man you guys cannot read…this was given to the GJ, He’s saying he didn’t release it to the public.
Dwendt44 December 14th, 2014 at 12:37
He wasn’t shot in the leg, which wouldn’t have been fatal. But he was shot in the top of the head which was fatal and could only be done if Brown was on the ground.
Sure sounds like excessive force to me.
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 17:39
he wasn’t shot in the top of the head, read the report, even the one by the family expert.
whatthe46 December 14th, 2014 at 17:58
he was shot 2 x’s in the head, just not the top. the entry wounds suggested that he was going down when he was shot, thus the exit.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 08:20
Yes but the family expert also said that based upon the evidence he examined it appears to him that Brown was moving toward the officer. How come people ignore that. People want to talk about how bad the ME’s office is but when the family hires an expert and he comes to the same result people just stop talking about the expert…why is that?
eyelashviper December 14th, 2014 at 13:19
There were shots in the arm that the ME’s could not determine which was the entry or exit wound, so he could have been shot while running away.
mea_mark December 14th, 2014 at 15:21
That would make a lot more sense also. If the first shot that hit him while he was fleeing had been a body shot he probably would of just gone down and not turned around. Turning around takes coordination and thought, something you are likely to lose if you are shot in the body.
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 17:38
also he wasn’t shot in the back, even the family’s expert agreed to that.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 16:52
Would that be proven false by the information provided by the lying racist prosecutor? And that’s not just my opinion, but that of anyone capable of reading the released documents.
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 17:38
You mean the truth as told by the DA, the medial Examiner’s office, the FBI and the expert hired by the Brown Family, they all agree that Brown was NEVER shot in the back. So everyone even the expert hired by the family agrees Brown wasn’t running away, wasn’t shot in the back and wasn’t shot with his hands up.
So EVERYONE is lying, even the family?
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 19:34
I was speaking of the entire body of evidence but even if he wasn’t running away – it doesn’t justify murder.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 08:22
It’s not murder if it’s justified. We know Brown was violent, we know he attacked the officer, we know there was a fight over the officers gun, we know Brown wasn’t running away. The evidence supports the officer. Some people just don’t care. Heck if there was a video showing Brown charging the officer people still wouldn’t care. People like Rev Jackson make a living off keeping the fires burning. As long as they do the vast majority of problems in this country will never end.
Carla Akins December 15th, 2014 at 08:42
We know none of that except his action in the store. McCullough is a proven liar – there is nothing he said or provided to the GJ that can be trusted.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 10:04
really, so everyone including Brown’s friend and the people hired by the Family cannot be trusted? So you say EVERYONE including Browns Family and friends, the Police, the FBI, the DA, the GJ everyone is lying. Then what’s the point if no one is telling the truth even the family and friends.
Carla Akins December 15th, 2014 at 14:38
Not at all what I said. The information we know is what was released by McCullough. We have no idea if this data is correct – but we definitely know for a fact that it’s incomplete – hence all the articles in this regard and McCullough’s apologies for “accidently” forgetting about those documents.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 20:21
sure but we’ve yet to get a smoking gun, we also know the feds have access to everything and I’d bet the farm The White House would be all over the smoking gun if there was one. Also that is what you said, you said the only thing we know if what happened at the store. That’s not true. Based upon statements from Browns Friend we know there was a fight, we know Brown was shot while trying to take the officers gun, we know Brown wasn’t shot in the back like a lot of protesters still insist. We know a lot of things. The problem is 99% of the people protesting do not care 1 once about the facts. They are using this as nothing more than a political statement and it’s being spearheaded by one of the worlds biggest racist and race baiters, Mr. Sharpton.
I still get a laugh out of the statement made by the Brown family member that Michael Brown was a kinda hearted young man who was only walking the streets spreading the lords word. That’s the kinda crap that is keeping the fires burning, facts don’t matter, some people will ignore facts because it will destroy their message.
Listen are there bad cops, sure, are most cops good, yes. Are there bad black men walking the streets, yes…that doesn’t make all black men bad. The problem is there are racist people on the ground there (Like Brown’s Father) who have made it their goal to keep the violence going.
greenfloyd December 15th, 2014 at 22:53
Hmmm, so, are there people out there who only accept the “facts” that match their imaginations? Of course there are. :)
Millions of Americans do care, and that’s the most important “fact!” Many have been so moved by what they see as a broken, racist justice system demand reform. Progress, albeit limited, has already been made. The New Jim Crow ain’t what it used to be!
While I am not a big Sharpton fan, I was curious why you go out of your way to insult him with such extreme prejudice?
Rev. Sharpton has heard it all before, I’m sure it’s water off a duck’s back.
But trying to shift blame for the night Ferguson burned onto the Brown family, that is even more insidious. I’ve seen the video of Louis Head, Michael Brown’s step dad, and his angry “Burn this bitch down” rant. He may have been reprehensible, perhaps irresponsible in his words, yet it was a very insignificant factor in what appears to me a well orchestrated plan by state and local offiicals to let Ferguson burn for a night, then bring down the hammer! Other Brown family members have repeatedly called for peace and non-violence.
Although I’d still like to know who set fire to the Flood Christian Church? The reward for information leading to an arrest is $10,000. The number to call with tips is 1-888-ATF-FIRE.
Terry Carter December 16th, 2014 at 18:10
sure and I’d love to know who burned down and destroyed several businesses that had NOTHING to do with Brown’s shooting, heck they even destroyed Black own businesses. Sorry but If you yell fire in a crowed room and people get hurt because there was no fire then you are to blame, that’s where Brown’s father needs to step up and be a man.
As for Sharpton, I’m tired of a small group of people keeping the fires burning for personal gain. It’s sick and thy need to stop.
Also the system isn’t racist. Yes there are a ton of black people in jail, but the stats show that there are a ton of black people who break the law. Do I think there are racist judges out there that give the hammer to black men….heck yes, do I think it’s a majority, not 1 bit.
Sorry but the evens after the GJ were planned well in advance and not by the police. We have black people after black people all on TV talking about how if the GJ didn’t give them justice (funny how justice ment charge him only, forget the facts) then they’ve burn the town down. Yes it was pre-planned by a group of racist people and they were not the police.
greenfloyd December 16th, 2014 at 23:27
Torching the Flood Christian Church stands out in that it was no where near the focus of most destruction on West Florissant Avenue. It should be noted most of the businesses are insured, I’m not sure about the church. But the most obvious connection between the church and Brown family, who are members (Brown Sr was baptized there), is Pastor Carlton Lee. He believes an angry mob of white supremacists committed the arson because he had called for the arrest of Darrin Wilson in the weeks leading up to the night parts of Ferguson and some surrounding areas burned or were vandalized.
Buildings destroyed in Ferguson riots worth millions
—
I think we should just drop the whole Sharpton thing, you obviously don’t like the guy, you’ve made that abundantly clear, and it’s off-topic.
—
On average I think white people and black people commit crime at about the same rate. However, as President Obama noted, “There are disturbing patterns in some police departments…” Specifically I think he’s talking about patterns of focusing law enforcement on already disenfranchised communities and certain crimes that result in increased revenue to the city,i.e. asset seizures and fines. While, often ignoring more serious offenses such as domestic violence, child abuse and neglect, not to mention poverty and unemployment. Add Gangster-culture-economy to the mix, and you have something very much like Ferguson MO.
—
As I understand it, Gov. Nixon gave the order for the National Guard and state police to stand-down in Ferguson on Monday night, Nov. 24, while placing hundreds of troops around nearby police stations and other local, state and federal infrastructure, all in predominantly white neighborhoods.
At any rate, your inference the Brown family or any Ferguson residents had control over events that night is ludicrous. With the possible exceptions of the Flood Christian Church arson and the execution style murder and desecration of Deandre Joshua. And we’re back to where we started.:)
For what it’s worth it appears to me that as we went through the 3 month ordeal of the GJ process culminating on a bitter-cold November night was either a fiendish plan or gross incompetence. Whatever it was, it resulted in 24 hour of chaos and murder in and around Ferguson.
Whatever the motivation, it amounted to a form of collective punishment for demanding justice from an unjust political establishment.
My case in point is based on the manner in which DA McCulloch handled the release of the GJ findings without first informing the Brown family in person before making the big media announcement and feeding-frenzy which was sure to ensue.
Instead, the Browns and everyone else were kept well away from the court house by robo-cops and forced out into a wind-swept parking lot with their brewing grief and anger, streaming live on CNN. And at the same time in a split-screen, McCulloch is telling us how concerned he is about them, in his “no bill” preamble.
Your words. All I have are my suspicions and I am often wrong.
I noticed you don’t actually identify any of the “racist people…” who “pre-planned” the night Ferguson burned and Deandre Joshua was murdered. I’d suggest bringing those names to the attention of law enforcement, but, ugh, well you know… you could be making it all up as you go.
Nonetheless, DOJ has some big fish to try.
Terry Carter December 17th, 2014 at 06:49
did you watch the news….if you did you would have seen person after person talking about how they would burn the town down if the GJ didn’t return a guilty. Sorry that blows your entire argument out of the water.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 07:09
A few people said that.
A few people ALWAYS say that.
The point is that we don’t know what happened because the prosecutor represented the police while his job was to represent Michael Brown.
Terry Carter December 17th, 2014 at 11:18
no if you want to be honest, the DA’s job is to represent the people.
How did he fail, he presented all of the information. But lets say he only presented enough 1 sided facts to get charges filed. We’d be having this same discussion in a few months after the Jury found him not-guilty.
Heck if you look over all the evidence you’ll find that the ONLY reason this was ever taken to the GJ was to make a small group of people happy and to try and cut back on the burning and looting. The DA knew from the start there was NO way to get a guilty, heck pretty much EVERYONE knew that from the start but we have to make some people happy.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 13:16
He was supposed to represent the people in death of Michael Brown , who could not testify for himself, hence “Prosecutor”
“It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.”
-Justice Antonin Scalia, in the 1992 Supreme Court case of
United States v. Williams, explained what the role of a grand jury has been for
hundreds of years.
McCulloch allowed Wilson to testify for hours before the grand jury and presented them with every scrap of exculpatory evidence available, without any cross or anyone representing the deceased.
NOBODY who was being honest with themselves knows ANYTHING.
That is why it should have gone to trial, where all the evidence, in context, and cross examination would have been allowed.
greenfloyd December 17th, 2014 at 20:20
Yes of course I watch the news, like “talk” it’s cheap. I also saw most people, including all of the Brown clan calling for restraint and peaceful protests, except Mr. Head’s “…bitch” rant, for which I believe he later apologized, I am not really making an “argument,” it’s more of an interpretation of events as I understand them. That you agree or disagree with me is irrelevant.
greenfloyd December 15th, 2014 at 21:05
If you accept Wilson’s account and disregard several witnesses that maintain Brown appeared to be attempting to free himself from Wilson’s hold on his arm pulling him into the SUV.
Terry Carter December 16th, 2014 at 18:03
or you could count the words from Brown’s buddy to the GJ.
Also if he was trying to pull away why was he fighting over the gun. Yes I know people say ‘Well Wilson pulled the gun on him and he was scared’ Okay lets say he did, are you telling me that Brown was unable to pull away form Wilson when Wilson was holding him with 1 had…..that doesn’t wash, sorry.
Smalldeer December 16th, 2014 at 15:02
We know no such thing, we have Wilson’s CLAIM that he was attacked and pictures that prove he wasn’t attacked. The evidence doesn’t support Wilson’s claim, Mike Brown’s DNA/Skin was found on the OUTSIDE for the cruiser, the shell casings were found OUTSIDE of the cruiser. The shots to the top of the head prove that Mike Brown was already falling when he was shot in the head.
Terry Carter December 17th, 2014 at 06:46
Sorry but no. Even Browns Buddy admitted to the GJ that there was a fight at the police car, we also know that Browns blood was in the car and there where shells in the car….did you even review the evidence or just make crap up? Also the shots tot he head, even according to the Brown Family Expert show that Brown was leaning forward not falling. Even the expert admitted Brown could have been moving toward the officer.
Smalldeer December 16th, 2014 at 14:59
Wrong, multiple witnesses say that Wilson was shooting at a fleeing Brown, Wilson himself states this. Just because he wasn’t hit doesn’t mean that he wasn’t being shot at while he was RUNNING AWAY. The claim that his arms weren’t up is also not true, the shot that went through his forearm would have gone through his torso had his arms been down. It went through his upper arm, so his arms were in fact up.
greenfloyd December 14th, 2014 at 20:23
Despite all the “evidence” presented this phase of the encounter is still murky, at best. It all comes back to Wilson’s word against Dorian Johnson’s. As I understand it Johnson first told the GJ Brown was shot in the back and then later recanted that statement and admitted he didn’t see the shooting because he was running away from the scene as soon as Wilson and Brown started struggling. That was just after Wilson, driving the SUV, had reached out the window and grabbed Brown by the arm, dragging him part way inside the vehicle.
Last I read Johnson is hiding from both “Friends of Darren Wilson” and those in Ferguson who now consider him a “snitch.” A close associate of Johnson and Brown, Deandre Joshua, was murdered, execution style, then set on fire on the day the GJ verdict came in. He was found in his car, parked mere yards from the spot on Canfield Drive where Wilson killed Brown. Last word was no suspects and it was an on-going investigation.
This is far from over.
Smalldeer December 16th, 2014 at 14:56
The Deandre Joshua claim has been proven to be false. Dorian Johnson, didn’t recant anything and he HAS NOT been in hiding.
greenfloyd December 17th, 2014 at 00:20
Are you suggesting Joshua was not murdered? The last time I know Johnson surfaced was the morning of Nov. 25, he was pleading for someone to come pick him up and get him out of Ferguson ASAP… Do you know his current whereabouts?
Rochelle Lynn Dunlap December 15th, 2014 at 01:01
One of the shots to the head went in the forehead and traveled in a downward trajectory…explain how that one happened? According to the laws of physics, something that travels downward comes from above…How did Wilson get above this “Hulk Hogan” giant monster?
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 08:25
sure, when you run toward something do you run with your head laying back or leaning forward?
Now based upon the statements from the expert hired by the family, Brown was moving toward the officer when he was shot.
So we know Brown was violent, we know he attacked the officer, we know he tried to take the officers gun, we know he was a thief who probably didn’t want to go to jail. We know he didn’t have his hands up, we know he wasn’t shot running away. All of these facts are confirmed by the experts hired by the Family.
About the only one’s that are ignoring the evidence are the race baiters like Jackson who make money off race wars.
tracey marie December 14th, 2014 at 12:16
Looks like the justice department is going to HAVE to get involved
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 13:16
Wait, How was he shot while running away, put his hands in the air and turn around when all of the shots were in the front…except the shot to the hand while trying to take the officer’s gun. Sorry but another statement by Browns friend that has now been proven false. Also to those of you saying the DA should be in trouble for not presenting all of the evidence…man you guys cannot read…this was given to the GJ, He’s saying he didn’t release it to the public.
Dwendt44 December 14th, 2014 at 13:37
He wasn’t shot in the leg, which wouldn’t have been fatal. But he was shot in the top of the head which was fatal and could only be done if Brown was on the ground.
Sure sounds like excessive force to me.
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 18:39
he wasn’t shot in the top of the head, read the report, even the one by the family expert.
whatthe46 December 14th, 2014 at 18:58
he was shot 2 x’s in the head, just not the top. the entry wounds suggested that he was going down when he was shot, thus the exit.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 09:20
Yes but the family expert also said that based upon the evidence he examined it appears to him that Brown was moving toward the officer. How come people ignore that. People want to talk about how bad the ME’s office is but when the family hires an expert and he comes to the same result people just stop talking about the expert…why is that?
eyelashviper December 14th, 2014 at 14:19
There were shots in the arm that the ME’s could not determine which was the entry or exit wound, so he could have been shot while running away.
mea_mark December 14th, 2014 at 16:21
That would make a lot more sense also. If the first shot that hit him while he was fleeing had been a body shot he probably would of just gone down and not turned around. Turning around takes coordination and thought, something you are likely to lose if you are shot in the body.
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 18:38
also he wasn’t shot in the back, even the family’s expert agreed to that.
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 17:52
Would that be proven false by the information provided by the lying racist prosecutor? And that’s not just my opinion, but that of anyone capable of reading the released documents.
Terry Carter December 14th, 2014 at 18:38
You mean the truth as told by the DA, the medial Examiner’s office, the FBI and the expert hired by the Brown Family, they all agree that Brown was NEVER shot in the back. So everyone even the expert hired by the family agrees Brown wasn’t running away, wasn’t shot in the back and wasn’t shot with his hands up.
So EVERYONE is lying, even the family?
Carla Akins December 14th, 2014 at 20:34
I was speaking of the entire body of evidence but even if he wasn’t running away – it doesn’t justify murder.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 09:22
It’s not murder if it’s justified. We know Brown was violent, we know he attacked the officer, we know there was a fight over the officers gun, we know Brown wasn’t running away. The evidence supports the officer. Some people just don’t care. Heck if there was a video showing Brown charging the officer people still wouldn’t care. People like Rev Jackson make a living off keeping the fires burning. As long as they do the vast majority of problems in this country will never end.
Carla Akins December 15th, 2014 at 09:42
We know none of that except his action in the store. McCullough is a proven liar – there is nothing he said or provided to the GJ that can be trusted.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 11:04
really, so everyone including Brown’s friend and the people hired by the Family cannot be trusted? So you say EVERYONE including Browns Family and friends, the Police, the FBI, the DA, the GJ everyone is lying. Then what’s the point if no one is telling the truth even the family and friends.
Carla Akins December 15th, 2014 at 15:38
Not at all what I said. The information we know is what was released by McCullough. We have no idea if this data is correct – but we definitely know for a fact that it’s incomplete – hence all the articles in this regard and McCullough’s apologies for “accidently” forgetting about those documents.
Terry Carter December 15th, 2014 at 21:21
sure but we’ve yet to get a smoking gun, we also know the feds have access to everything and I’d bet the farm The White House would be all over the smoking gun if there was one. Also that is what you said, you said the only thing we know if what happened at the store. That’s not true. Based upon statements from Browns Friend we know there was a fight, we know Brown was shot while trying to take the officers gun, we know Brown wasn’t shot in the back like a lot of protesters still insist. We know a lot of things. The problem is 99% of the people protesting do not care 1 once about the facts. They are using this as nothing more than a political statement and it’s being spearheaded by one of the worlds biggest racist and race baiters, Mr. Sharpton.
I still get a laugh out of the statement made by the Brown family member that Michael Brown was a kinda hearted young man who was only walking the streets spreading the lords word. That’s the kinda crap that is keeping the fires burning, facts don’t matter, some people will ignore facts because it will destroy their message.
Listen are there bad cops, sure, are most cops good, yes. Are there bad black men walking the streets, yes…that doesn’t make all black men bad. The problem is there are racist people on the ground there (Like Brown’s Father) who have made it their goal to keep the violence going.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org December 15th, 2014 at 23:53
Hmmm, so, are there people out there who only accept the “facts” that match their imaginations? Of course there are. :)
Millions of Americans do care, and that’s the most important “fact!” Many have been so moved by what they see as a broken, racist justice system demand reform. Progress, albeit limited, has already been made. The New Jim Crow ain’t what it used to be!
While I am not a big Sharpton fan, I was curious why you go out of your way to insult him with such extreme prejudice?
Rev. Sharpton has heard it all before, I’m sure it’s water off a duck’s back.
But trying to shift blame for the night Ferguson burned onto the Brown family, that is even more insidious. I’ve seen the video of Louis Head, Michael Brown’s step dad, and his angry “Burn this bitch down” rant. He may have been reprehensible, perhaps irresponsible in his words, yet it was a very insignificant factor in what appears to me a well orchestrated plan by state and local offiicals to let Ferguson burn for a night, then bring down the hammer! Other Brown family members have repeatedly called for peace and non-violence.
Although I’d still like to know who set fire to the Flood Christian Church? The reward for information leading to an arrest is $10,000. The number to call with tips is 1-888-ATF-FIRE.
Terry Carter December 16th, 2014 at 19:10
sure and I’d love to know who burned down and destroyed several businesses that had NOTHING to do with Brown’s shooting, heck they even destroyed Black own businesses. Sorry but If you yell fire in a crowed room and people get hurt because there was no fire then you are to blame, that’s where Brown’s father needs to step up and be a man.
As for Sharpton, I’m tired of a small group of people keeping the fires burning for personal gain. It’s sick and thy need to stop.
Also the system isn’t racist. Yes there are a ton of black people in jail, but the stats show that there are a ton of black people who break the law. Do I think there are racist judges out there that give the hammer to black men….heck yes, do I think it’s a majority, not 1 bit.
Sorry but the evens after the GJ were planned well in advance and not by the police. We have black people after black people all on TV talking about how if the GJ didn’t give them justice (funny how justice ment charge him only, forget the facts) then they’ve burn the town down. Yes it was pre-planned by a group of racist people and they were not the police.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org December 17th, 2014 at 00:27
Torching the Flood Christian Church stands out in that it was no where near the focus of most destruction on West Florissant Avenue. It should be noted most of the businesses are insured, I’m not sure about the church. But the most obvious connection between the church and Brown family, who are members (Brown Sr was baptized there), is Pastor Carlton Lee. He believes an angry mob of white supremacists committed the arson because he had called for the arrest of Darrin Wilson in the weeks leading up to the night parts of Ferguson and some surrounding areas burned or were vandalized.
Buildings destroyed in Ferguson riots worth millions
—
I think we should just drop the whole Sharpton thing, you obviously don’t like the guy, you’ve made that abundantly clear, and it’s off-topic.
—
On average I think white people and black people commit crime at about the same rate. However, as President Obama noted, “There are disturbing patterns in some police departments…” Specifically I think he’s talking about patterns of focusing law enforcement on already disenfranchised communities and certain crimes that result in increased revenue to the city,i.e. asset seizures and fines. While, often ignoring more serious offenses such as domestic violence, child abuse and neglect, not to mention poverty and unemployment. Add Gangster-culture-economy to the mix, and you have something very much like Ferguson MO.
—
As I understand it, Gov. Nixon gave the order for the National Guard and state police to stand-down in Ferguson on Monday night, Nov. 24, while placing hundreds of troops around nearby police stations and other local, state and federal infrastructure, all in predominantly white neighborhoods.
At any rate, your inference the Brown family or any Ferguson residents had control over events that night is ludicrous. With the possible exceptions of the Flood Christian Church arson and the execution style murder and desecration of Deandre Joshua. And we’re back to where we started.:)
For what it’s worth it appears to me that as we went through the 3 month ordeal of the GJ process culminating on a bitter-cold November night was either a fiendish plan or gross incompetence. Whatever it was, it resulted in 24 hour of chaos and murder in and around Ferguson.
Whatever the motivation, it amounted to a form of collective punishment for demanding justice from an unjust political establishment.
My case in point is based on the manner in which DA McCulloch handled the release of the GJ findings without first informing the Brown family in person before making the big media announcement and feeding-frenzy which was sure to ensue.
Instead, the Browns and everyone else were kept well away from the court house by robo-cops and forced out into a wind-swept parking lot with their brewing grief and anger, streaming live on CNN. And at the same time in a split-screen, McCulloch is telling us how concerned he is about them, in his “no bill” preamble.
Your words. All I have are my suspicions and I am often wrong.
I noticed you don’t actually identify any of the “racist people…” who “pre-planned” the night Ferguson burned and Deandre Joshua was murdered. I’d suggest bringing those names to the attention of law enforcement, but, ugh, well you know… you could be making it all up as you go.
Nonetheless, DOJ has some big fish to try.
Terry Carter December 17th, 2014 at 07:49
did you watch the news….if you did you would have seen person after person talking about how they would burn the town down if the GJ didn’t return a guilty. Sorry that blows your entire argument out of the water.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 08:09
A few people said that.
A few people ALWAYS say that.
The point is that we don’t know what happened because the prosecutor represented the police while his job was to represent Michael Brown.
Terry Carter December 17th, 2014 at 12:18
no if you want to be honest, the DA’s job is to represent the people.
How did he fail, he presented all of the information. But lets say he only presented enough 1 sided facts to get charges filed. We’d be having this same discussion in a few months after the Jury found him not-guilty.
Heck if you look over all the evidence you’ll find that the ONLY reason this was ever taken to the GJ was to make a small group of people happy and to try and cut back on the burning and looting. The DA knew from the start there was NO way to get a guilty, heck pretty much EVERYONE knew that from the start but we have to make some people happy.
OldLefty December 17th, 2014 at 14:16
He was supposed to represent the people in death of Michael Brown , who could not testify for himself, hence “Prosecutor”
“It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.”
-Justice Antonin Scalia, in the 1992 Supreme Court case of
United States v. Williams, explained what the role of a grand jury has been for
hundreds of years.
McCulloch allowed Wilson to testify for hours before the grand jury and presented them with every scrap of exculpatory evidence available, without any cross or anyone representing the deceased.
NOBODY who was being honest with themselves knows ANYTHING.
That is why it should have gone to trial, where all the evidence, in context, and cross examination would have been allowed.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org December 17th, 2014 at 21:20
Yes of course I watch the news, like “talk” it’s cheap. I also saw most people, including all of the Brown clan calling for restraint and peaceful protests, except Mr. Head’s “…bitch” rant, for which I believe he later apologized, I am not really making an “argument,” it’s more of an interpretation of events as I understand them. That you agree or disagree with me is irrelevant.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org December 15th, 2014 at 22:05
If you accept Wilson’s account and disregard several witnesses that maintain Brown appeared to be attempting to free himself from Wilson’s hold on his arm pulling him into the SUV.
Terry Carter December 16th, 2014 at 19:03
or you could count the words from Brown’s buddy to the GJ.
Also if he was trying to pull away why was he fighting over the gun. Yes I know people say ‘Well Wilson pulled the gun on him and he was scared’ Okay lets say he did, are you telling me that Brown was unable to pull away form Wilson when Wilson was holding him with 1 had…..that doesn’t wash, sorry.
Smalldeer December 16th, 2014 at 16:02
We know no such thing, we have Wilson’s CLAIM that he was attacked and pictures that prove he wasn’t attacked. The evidence doesn’t support Wilson’s claim, Mike Brown’s DNA/Skin was found on the OUTSIDE for the cruiser, the shell casings were found OUTSIDE of the cruiser. The shots to the top of the head prove that Mike Brown was already falling when he was shot in the head.
Terry Carter December 17th, 2014 at 07:46
Sorry but no. Even Browns Buddy admitted to the GJ that there was a fight at the police car, we also know that Browns blood was in the car and there where shells in the car….did you even review the evidence or just make crap up? Also the shots tot he head, even according to the Brown Family Expert show that Brown was leaning forward not falling. Even the expert admitted Brown could have been moving toward the officer.
Smalldeer December 16th, 2014 at 15:59
Wrong, multiple witnesses say that Wilson was shooting at a fleeing Brown, Wilson himself states this. Just because he wasn’t hit doesn’t mean that he wasn’t being shot at while he was RUNNING AWAY. The claim that his arms weren’t up is also not true, the shot that went through his forearm would have gone through his torso had his arms been down. It went through his upper arm, so his arms were in fact up.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org December 14th, 2014 at 21:23
Despite all the “evidence” presented this phase of the encounter is still murky, at best. It all comes back to Wilson’s word against Dorian Johnson’s. As I understand it Johnson first told the GJ Brown was shot in the back and then later recanted that statement and admitted he didn’t see the shooting because he was running away from the scene as soon as Wilson and Brown started struggling. That was just after Wilson, driving the SUV, had reached out the window and grabbed Brown by the arm, dragging him part way inside the vehicle.
Last I read Johnson is hiding from both “Friends of Darren Wilson” and those in Ferguson who now consider him a “snitch.” A close associate of Johnson and Brown, Deandre Joshua, was murdered, execution style, then set on fire on the day the GJ verdict came in. He was found in his car, parked mere yards from the spot on Canfield Drive where Wilson killed Brown. Last word was no suspects and it was an on-going investigation.
This is far from over.
Smalldeer December 16th, 2014 at 15:56
The Deandre Joshua claim has been proven to be false. Dorian Johnson, didn’t recant anything and he HAS NOT been in hiding.
floyd[@]greenfloyd.org December 17th, 2014 at 01:20
Are you suggesting Joshua was not murdered? The last time I know Johnson surfaced was the morning of Nov. 25, he was pleading for someone to come pick him up and get him out of Ferguson ASAP… Do you know his current whereabouts?
Rochelle Lynn Dunlap December 15th, 2014 at 02:01
One of the shots to the head went in the forehead and traveled in a downward trajectory…explain how that one happened? According to the laws of physics, something that travels downward comes from above…How did Wilson get above this “Hulk Hogan” giant monster?
tracey marie December 14th, 2014 at 13:16
Looks like the justice department is going to HAVE to get involved
tomjohnson December 14th, 2014 at 12:28
JAIL.
tomjohnson December 14th, 2014 at 13:28
JAIL.