Pardon Bush And Cheney?
It seems counter-intuitive in the wake of the release of the torture report, but no less than the executive director of the ACLU suggests it.
I have come to think that President Obama should issue pardons, after all — because it may be the only way to establish, once and for all, that torture is illegal. . .An explicit pardon would lay down a marker, signaling to those considering torture in the future that they could be prosecuted.
Mr. Obama could pardon George J. Tenet for authorizing torture at the C.I.A.’s black sites overseas, Donald H. Rumsfeld for authorizing the use of torture at the Guantánamo Bay prison, David S. Addington, John C. Yoo and Jay S. Bybee for crafting the legal cover for torture, and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for overseeing it all.
The basic idea is that if we are not going to prosecute these folks, pardoning them is the best way to establish that what they did is illegal.
Copyright 2014 Liberaland
By: Stuart Shapiro
Stuart is a professor and the Director of the Public Policy
program at the Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers
University. He teaches economics and cost-benefit analysis and studies
regulation in the United States at both the federal and state levels.
Prior to coming to Rutgers, Stuart worked for five years at the Office
of Management and Budget in Washington under Presidents Clinton and
George W. Bush.
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edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 15:01
I know many will find this laughable but the UN just called for those who caused this to be held responsible.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 16:01
I know many will find this laughable but the UN just called for those who caused this to be held responsible.
https://news.vice.com/article/un-official-wants-us-administrators-involved-in-torture-to-be-prosecuted?utm_source=vicenewstwitter
tracey marie December 9th, 2014 at 15:09
Add Condeleeza to the list. That is a brilliant idea, we will never see a conviction so we should shame them with a blight on their legacy
rg9rts December 9th, 2014 at 15:10
TAG twice in a row LOL
tracey marie December 9th, 2014 at 16:09
Add Condeleeza to the list. That is a brilliant idea, we will never see a conviction so we should shame them with a blight on their legacy
rg9rts December 9th, 2014 at 16:10
TAG twice in a row LOL
AnthonyLook December 9th, 2014 at 15:24
I think it would be best if they ALL are pardoned, if and only if; they agree to publically admit the wrong doing, acknowledge its ineffectiveness, publically stipulate that this must never happen again, they lose all pensions, benefits and monies for prior service and they can not be involved in politics of any kind. Short of that, they should be prosecuted.
burqa December 9th, 2014 at 17:01
Or let them have their pensions and other benefits if they come completely clean. That’s how those South African truth commissions worked. As long as they told all, they got off because having the whole story out there was considered more important.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 17:13
oops
AnthonyLook December 9th, 2014 at 18:35
Such a buzz kill; but yes I think that would be the wiser route.
Dwendt44 December 9th, 2014 at 18:44
But the big wigs involved couldn’t care less about pensions, they’ve got enough socked away to keep them in silk sheets for the rest of their lives. Golden parachutes, large speaking fees, well paid board of directors fees, etc..
AnthonyLook December 9th, 2014 at 19:33
I don’t know about that; granted they are wealthy beyond belief, but these people are driven by greed and every little bit of money taken does stink. If not financially, it does mentally. I know I’d feel better about it.
AnthonyLook December 9th, 2014 at 16:24
I think it would be best if they ALL are pardoned, if and only if; they agree to publically admit the wrong doing, acknowledge its ineffectiveness, publically stipulate that this must never happen again, they lose all pensions, benefits and monies for prior service and they can not be involved in politics of any kind. Short of that, they should be prosecuted.
burqa December 9th, 2014 at 18:01
Or let them have their pensions and other benefits if they come completely clean. That’s how those South African truth commissions worked. As long as they told all, they got off because having the whole story out there was considered more important.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 18:13
oops
AnthonyLook December 9th, 2014 at 19:35
Such a buzz kill; but yes I think that would be the wiser route.
Dwendt44 December 9th, 2014 at 19:44
But the big wigs involved couldn’t care less about pensions, they’ve got enough socked away to keep them in silk sheets for the rest of their lives. Golden parachutes, large speaking fees, well paid board of directors fees, etc..
AnthonyLook December 9th, 2014 at 20:33
I don’t know about that; granted they are wealthy beyond belief, but these people are driven by greed and every little bit of money taken does stink. If not financially, it does mentally. I know I’d feel better about it.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 16:51
Well here’s your opportunity, I hope the link works, otherwise go to my timeline as I retweeted it.
Clay Adams @Mooncatadams
Urge Attorney General Holder: no one should get away with #torture. Sign now: http://www.aclu.org/tortureTW
Suzanne McFly December 9th, 2014 at 17:02
Signed :)
Cosmic_Surfer December 9th, 2014 at 17:03
Won’t matter one iota. We have sent thousands of signatures to the ICC – Sent thousands to Obama, Holder, and many of us even met with Congressmen and women. Nobody will touch it – why? Because we want to torture. Even Obama tortures…Today, he tortures. As long as the people continue to put war criminals in office we will always be war criminals by proxy
Tommy6860 December 9th, 2014 at 17:13
This^ and though I’d take Obama over any president I’ve ever voted for before, Obama is not much different when it comes to this issue. Even the committee that released these finding are complicit in allowing the torture.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 17:14
Look I’m 67, I still hope for a better future even though I wont be around that much longer, I still recycle and try to reduce my “carbon foot print” in so many ways it’s ridiculous. Signing the petition for me gives me hope that things might change.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 17:51
Well here’s your opportunity, I hope the link works, otherwise go to my timeline as I retweeted it.
Clay Adams @Mooncatadams
Urge Attorney General Holder: no one should get away with #torture. Sign now: http://www.aclu.org/tortureTW
Suzanne McFly December 9th, 2014 at 18:02
Signed :)
Cosmic_Surfer December 9th, 2014 at 18:03
Won’t matter one iota. We have sent thousands of signatures to the ICC – Sent thousands to Obama, Holder, and many of us even met with Congressmen and women. Nobody will touch it – why? Because we want to torture. Even Obama tortures…Today, he tortures. As long as the people continue to put war criminals in office we will always be war criminals by proxy
Tommy6860 December 9th, 2014 at 18:13
This^ and though I’d take Obama over any president I’ve ever voted for before, Obama is not much different when it comes to this issue. Even the committee that released these finding are complicit in allowing the torture.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 18:14
Look I’m 67, I still hope for a better future even though I wont be around that much longer, I still recycle and try to reduce my “carbon foot print” in so many ways it’s ridiculous. Signing the petition for me gives me hope that things might change.
burqa December 9th, 2014 at 16:59
Excellent idea, Mr. Shapiro!
BRAVO, STUART SHAPIRO!, YAAAAAAY FOR YOUR GREAT IDEA!
burqa December 9th, 2014 at 17:59
Excellent idea, Mr. Shapiro!
BRAVO, STUART SHAPIRO!, YAAAAAAY FOR YOUR GREAT IDEA!
fancypants December 9th, 2014 at 18:05
par·don
ˈpärdn/
noun
noun: pardon
1.
the action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense.
“he obtained pardon for his sins”
synonyms:forgiveness, absolution, clemency, mercy, leniency, remission
“pardon for your sins”
————————————————————
Don’t you have to be convicted in court first ?
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 18:14
No, nixon was pardoned for all offenses he may have committed, so even if he murdered someone he was pardoned for it.
fancypants December 9th, 2014 at 18:49
I do recall they knew who broke into Watergate before Nixon left office. Lets just say it all went down like bill Clinton and monica without congress grilling him first.
fancypants December 9th, 2014 at 19:05
par·don
ˈpärdn/
noun
noun: pardon
1.
the action of forgiving or being forgiven for an error or offense.
“he obtained pardon for his sins”
synonyms:forgiveness, absolution, clemency, mercy, leniency, remission
“pardon for your sins”
————————————————————
Don’t you have to be convicted in court first ?
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 19:14
No, nixon was pardoned for all offenses he may have committed, so even if he murdered someone he was pardoned for it.
fancypants December 9th, 2014 at 19:49
I do recall they knew who broke into Watergate before Nixon left office. Lets just say it all went down like bill Clinton and monica without congress grilling him first.
mmaynard119 December 9th, 2014 at 20:35
It has been a very interesting day. First we learn that the CIA deliberately didn’t inform the SecDef and SecState of their actions. Then Col. Larry Wilkinson comes on Chris Hayes’ show and calls out Cheney as the architect of the torture and extraordinary renditions. Then there is the info in the report summary. It has been a sad day, but a good day in the history of the US because it was brought out in the open.
I understand the reasoning for the pardons, which imply an admission of guilt, but no, they should be tried in the US and tried by the ICC.
edmeyer_able December 9th, 2014 at 23:24
Just watched Rachael Maddow and it’s enough to make you sick what was done over and over. Bush et al should serve life in prison for what they’ve done in our name.
TexasGrammy December 11th, 2014 at 14:23
Cheney and Bush refuse to admit guilt or even to acknowledge that the enhanced interrogations provided no useful information. No Pardons.
mmaynard119 December 9th, 2014 at 21:35
It has been a very interesting day. First we learn that the CIA deliberately didn’t inform the SecDef and SecState of their actions. Then Col. Larry Wilkinson comes on Chris Hayes’ show and calls out Cheney as the architect of the torture and extraordinary renditions. Then there is the info in the report summary. It has been a sad day, but a good day in the history of the US because it was brought out in the open.
I understand the reasoning for the pardons, which imply an admission of guilt, but no, they should be tried in the US and tried by the ICC.
edmeyer_able December 10th, 2014 at 00:24
Just watched Rachael Maddow and it’s enough to make you sick what was done over and over. Bush et al should serve life in prison for what they’ve done in our name.
TexasGrammy December 11th, 2014 at 15:23
Cheney and Bush refuse to admit guilt or even to acknowledge that the enhanced interrogations provided no useful information. No Pardons.
Obewon December 9th, 2014 at 22:54
Who on Earth would pardon war criminals tried, convicted and Executed at Nürnberg? Irresponsible Republiklans.
Obewon December 9th, 2014 at 23:54
Who on Earth would pardon war criminals tried, convicted and Executed at Nürnberg? Today’s Irresponsible Republiklans.
Bunya December 10th, 2014 at 19:42
Pardons??? The GOP don’t need no stinking pardons!!!
Obama can pardon ’til the cows come home. Republicans don’t care. A pardon to them is just an idle threat. Once (if) the GOP regains power, the torture and war crimes will just resume – that’s what they do.
The Bush administration should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity – and then shot!
Bunya December 10th, 2014 at 20:42
Pardons??? The GOP don’t need no stinking pardons!!!
Obama can pardon ’til the cows come home. Republicans don’t care. A pardon to them is just an idle threat. Once (if) the GOP regains power, the torture and war crimes will just resume – that’s what they do.
The Bush administration should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity – and then shot!
Foundryman December 13th, 2014 at 15:30
Pardons??? Let’s get them arrested, tried and convicted first, then we’ll talk about pardons…
Foundryman December 13th, 2014 at 16:30
Pardons??? Let’s get them arrested, tried and convicted first, then we’ll talk about pardons…