Police Officer Shoots 12-Year-Old Boy Carrying BB Gun
A Cleveland police officer shot a 12-year-old boy (not pictured) outside a city recreation center late Saturday afternoon after the boy pulled a BB gun from his waistband, according to police.
A relative of the boy is seen crying on the ground after hearing of the shooting
“The guy keeps pulling it in and out…it’s probably fake, but he’s scaring the s*** out of people,” he added.
Cleveland.com reports that the rookie officer saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw the boy pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association President Jeffrey Follmer said.
When the officer got out of the car, he told the boy to put his hands up.
That’s when the boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the BB gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.
According to Tomba, the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically. The weapon was not pointed at police officers.
The child was shot in the stomach and transported to a local hospital. He’s listed in serious condition.
“We don’t come to work everyday and want to use force on anybody,” Tomba said. “That’s not what our job is. We’re part of this community.”
“When an officer gives a command, we expect it to be followed,” Tomba said. “The way it looks like right now, it wasn’t followed, but we’re going to continue our investigation.”
According to 19 Action News, police say the weapon was an “airsoft” type replica gun, resembling a semi-automatic pistol, with the orange safety indicator removed.
Watch:
19 Action News|Cleveland, OH|News, Weather, Sports
H/T: The incomparable @CarlaAkins with thanks.
Copyright 2014 Liberaland
By: Anomaly100
Nick Borelli November 23rd, 2014 at 13:58
It’s just one of those things.
Nick Borelli November 23rd, 2014 at 14:58
It’s just one of those things.
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 14:04
I own two of those airsoft rifles. Fact is the ends of the rifle that have the orange marking is a seperate piece that screws off the end, and to be honest it screws on very loosly and rattles really annoying if one asked me. I took mine off because when shooting the bb’s the loose end barrel with the marking slow the bb’s and more often than not get jammed inside the end. So just because this kids toy gun shows the orange marking was scratched off, which could mean removed for the very same reasons, is not an excuse to be shot at by anyone period.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:06
Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in
his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or
about a public place.
He never should have had it in the first place.
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 14:07
He was also 12 years old, just because theres a law on the books doesn’t mean it’s reasonable either.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:23
There is no excuse for his parents not knowing the law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. His parents never should have bought it for him.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 14:40
Just like that 9 year old girl on the shooting range with the Full auto Uzi…
How would you like to live with knowing you killed a person cause your parents thought it would make a cool video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA4x8cDrU2k
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:42
That was negligence on the part of the instructor and it was a mistake that got him killed.
It IS a lot like this situation. The 12 year old’s parents were negligent and the kid made several mistakes that ended up getting him killed.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 15:57
All except for that part about being in a park with other children playing and not being a gun range.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:03
He never should have brought that airsoft gun with him. He never should have tucked it into his waistband when the police car was approaching and he never should have reached for it when he was told to put his hands up. It’s his parents’ fault that he had the gun to begin with and it is his fault that he got shot. He is not innocent in all this. He clearly knew that he shouldn’t have it because he made a conscious effort to conceal it. His death was the result of contributory negligence.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 16:05
You make a lot of assumptions.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:06
As do you.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 17:53
He is still a 12 year old child playing in a park. The officer could of done things a lot differently. Like be evasive and negotiate till an understanding is reached instead of killing a child. You can not treat children like adults.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 18:03
It’s easy for you to say that from the comfort of your chair in your home. It’s easy to second guess and speculate having knowledge that was not available to the police officers at the time.
He never should have had the gun in the first place.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 18:25
I will grant you he shouldn’t have had a toy gun that looks real and can do some actual damage in a park but it was still a toy and the damage it could of have done is minimal. All I know is what I would have done, cautiously advance always near cover and try and talk the situation down. To me that is common sense, especially around children.
ps. I do know someone that is a high ranking MP at a major military base. I do not think they would disagree with me.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 18:39
How many times do I have to say it is NOT a toy. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to accept? It’s not a toy. I’ve shown the label from an airsoft gun box that says it’s not a toy. The manufacturer says it’s not a toy. Stop calling it a damn toy.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 19:26
I know exactly what it is. It is a toy. Yes it can hurt, lots of toys can. If it was a pellet gun with an fps of 1000 that shot lead projectiles I would think differently. Usually though those guns have different kinds of sights on them. It may be hard to tell at a distance with a quick glance but that is why the officer should of advanced evasively. He should have given himself time to evaluate the situation instead of rushing into a park to manhandle a child where children are playing and start shooting. I am sorry but all I see is dumb cocky behavior by someone who wasn’t trained right and showed a total lack of empathy for who was involved.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 20:02
So, pellet pistols that shoot lead pellets or steel BBs at 450 fps don’t count? Because that’s the average fps of CO2 powered bb guns. There are pump bb/pellet rifles that have a max fps of about 640. Are they toys in your mind?
There are airsoft sniper rifles that have a FPS of 740. Are they toys?
You know what? Call it whatever you want. Call it a toy. Call it a dildo for all I care. It doesn’t make you any less wrong.
WHY_O_WHY November 23rd, 2014 at 14:29
Sorry, Daniel…and please don’t take this as me trolling or being pro-gun because I vote blue…but where were the parents here? Granted, it’s been 40 years since I was 12, and I’m not saying that my mother or father knew every person with whom I befriended, but I also knew the hazards of a toy gun, even in 1974. Even if I would’ve played with a gun back then, I wouldn’t have had the mentality to put it in my waistband, even if this kid was somehow role playing.
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 15:04
I own two of those airsoft rifles. Fact is the ends of the rifle that have the orange marking is a seperate piece that screws off the end, and to be honest it screws on very loosly and rattles really annoying if one asked me. I took mine off because when shooting the bb’s the loose end barrel with the marking slow the bb’s and more often than not get jammed inside the end. So just because this kids toy gun shows the orange marking was scratched off, which could mean removed for the very same reasons, is not an excuse to be shot at by anyone period.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:06
Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in
his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or
about a public place.
He never should have had it in the first place.
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 15:07
He was also 12 years old, just because theres a law on the books doesn’t mean it’s reasonable either. On a side note at least from a logical perspective, I do wonder how many CHILDREN, would imagine that a law exists that prohibited them from having a toy in the first place, secondly I wonder how many children without law degrees would even be aware of such law, just as I would wager that very few adults would be aware of said law.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:23
There is no excuse for his parents not knowing the law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. His parents never should have bought it for him.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:40
Just like that 9 year old girl on the shooting range with the Full auto Uzi…
How would you like to live with knowing you killed a person cause your parents thought it would make a cool video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA4x8cDrU2k
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:42
That was negligence on the part of the instructor and it was a mistake that got him killed.
It IS a lot like this situation. The 12 year old’s parents were negligent and the kid made several mistakes that ended up getting him killed.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 16:57
All except for that part about being in a park with other children playing and not being a gun range.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 17:03
He never should have brought that airsoft gun with him. He never should have tucked it into his waistband when the police car was approaching and he never should have reached for it when he was told to put his hands up. It’s his parents’ fault that he had the gun to begin with and it is his fault that he got shot. He is not innocent in all this. He clearly knew that he shouldn’t have it because he made a conscious effort to conceal it. His death was the result of contributory negligence.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 17:05
You make a lot of assumptions.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 17:06
As do you.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 18:53
He is still a 12 year old child playing in a park. The officer could of done things a lot differently. Like be evasive and negotiate till an understanding is reached instead of killing a child. You can not treat children like adults.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 19:03
It’s easy for you to say that from the comfort of your chair in your home. It’s easy to second guess and speculate having knowledge that was not available to the police officers at the time.
He never should have had the gun in the first place.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 19:25
I will grant you he shouldn’t have had a toy gun that looks real and can do some actual damage in a park but it was still a toy and the damage it could of have done is minimal. All I know is what I would have done, cautiously advance always near cover and try and talk the situation down. To me that is common sense, especially around children.
ps. I do know someone that is a high ranking MP at a major military base. I do not think they would disagree with me.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 19:39
How many times do I have to say it is NOT a toy. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to accept? It’s not a toy. I’ve shown the label from an airsoft gun box that says it’s not a toy. The manufacturer says it’s not a toy. Stop calling it a damn toy.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 20:26
I know exactly what it is. It is a toy. Yes it can hurt, lots of toys can. If it was a pellet gun with an fps of 1000 that shot lead projectiles I would think differently. Usually though those guns have different kinds of sights on them. It may be hard to tell at a distance with a quick glance but that is why the officer should of advanced evasively. He should have given himself time to evaluate the situation instead of rushing into a park to manhandle a child where children are playing and start shooting. I am sorry but all I see is dumb cocky behavior by someone who wasn’t trained right and showed a total lack of empathy for who was involved.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 21:02
So, pellet pistols that shoot lead pellets or steel BBs at 450 fps don’t count? Because that’s the average fps of CO2 powered bb guns. There are pump bb/pellet rifles that have a max fps of about 640. Are they toys in your mind?
There are airsoft sniper rifles that have a FPS of 740. Are they toys?
You know what? Call it whatever you want. Call it a toy. Call it a dildo for all I care. It doesn’t make you any less wrong.
WHY_O_WHY November 23rd, 2014 at 15:29
Sorry, Daniel…and please don’t take this as me trolling or being pro-gun because I vote blue…but where were the parents here? Granted, it’s been 40 years since I was 12, and I’m not saying that my mother or father knew every person with whom I befriended, but I also knew the hazards of a toy gun, even in 1974. Even if I would’ve played with a gun back then, I wouldn’t have had the mentality to put it in my waistband, even if this kid was somehow role playing.
Melanie Revers November 23rd, 2014 at 14:05
Is it just me, or are the cops killing a lot of people they shouldn’t be lately?
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 14:16
yes they do seem to be…
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 14:18
It isn’t “lately”…
i has been happening for a long time.
Melanie Revers November 23rd, 2014 at 15:05
Is it just me, or are the cops killing a lot of people they shouldn’t be lately?
Daniel Padgett November 23rd, 2014 at 15:16
yes they do seem to be…
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:18
It isn’t “lately”…
it has been happening for a long time.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:21
So people stop calling it a damn toy, here is a picture directly from the box of one:
Perhaps if his parents had read it, he’d still be alive.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:28
Note the part that says NOT A TOY. Can it be any clearer than that?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 14:34
‘shoots rubber bullets”…
It’s a freaking toy…
No matter what you say.
Just like those ‘Yard darts” they used to sell…
“these are not real darts’….(until one impales your head)
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:40
Apparently, you can’t read, because it says “plastic projectiles” aka hard plastic BBs. Some rifles are capable of firing those plastic projectiles at speeds north of 600 feet per second (that’s about 410 miles per hour if you can’t figure it out on your own)
It’s idiots like you who disregard instructions, guidelines and regulations and then act shocked when bad things happen.
It says “NOT A TOY”. It also says “FOR AGES 18 YEARS AND UP”. If you can’t comprehend that, that’s your defect.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 14:44
Apparently you can not define a ‘toy” from an actual “firearm”..
Save the name calling for the other sites you haunt.
Hey RD81…
I’m going to keep it real simple, so simple even you can understand..
Just STFUAH..
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:56
How much more blatant than the MANUFACTURER of the damn things using the words NOT A TOY do you need? Do you have brain damage? Are you incapable of understanding what NOT means? NOT A TOY clearly defines the airsoft guns as NOT A GOD DAMN TOY.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 14:58
Look at you using the F- word…
Doesn’t take much to make you madder than a bag full o cats…
Your fuse is easy to light..
Hold on to this match…
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 14:59
You obviously lack the brain capacity to understand simple concepts. Either that or you are such a sad individual that you feel the need to be a troll for your own entertainment.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:35
calling names and telling people to shut up again…try it yourself
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:44
Clearly you haven’t learn how to do it.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:45
shut up and grow up
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:21
So people stop calling it a damn toy, here is a picture directly from the box of one:
Perhaps if his parents had read it, he’d still be alive.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:28
Note the part that says NOT A TOY. Can it be any clearer than that?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:34
‘shoots rubber bullets”…
It’s a freaking toy…
No matter what you say.
Just like those ‘Yard darts” they used to sell…
“these are not real darts’….(until one impales your head)
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:40
Apparently, you can’t read, because it says “plastic projectiles” aka hard plastic BBs. Some rifles are capable of firing those plastic projectiles at speeds north of 600 feet per second (that’s about 410 miles per hour if you can’t figure it out on your own)
It’s idiots like you who disregard instructions, guidelines and regulations and then act shocked when bad things happen.
It says “NOT A TOY”. It also says “FOR AGES 18 YEARS AND UP”. If you can’t comprehend that, that’s your defect.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:44
Apparently you can not define a ‘toy” from an actual “firearm”..
Save the name calling for the other sites you haunt.
Hey RD81…
I’m going to keep it real simple, so simple even you can understand..
Just STFUAH..
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:50
Are you really this fucking stupid? It is a GUN. It is not a FIREARM because it does not expel a projectile by the action of an explosive compound. It is, however, a GUN. How hard is that to understand? Do I need to draw you a picture?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:58
Look at you using the F- word…
Doesn’t take much to make you madder than a bag full o cats…
Your fuse is easy to light..
Hold on to this match…
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:59
You obviously lack the brain capacity to understand simple concepts. Either that or you are such a sad individual that you feel the need to be a troll for your own entertainment.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:56
How much more blatant than the MANUFACTURER of the damn things using the words NOT A TOY do you need? Do you have brain damage? Are you incapable of understanding what NOT means? NOT A TOY clearly defines the airsoft guns as NOT A GOD DAMN TOY.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:35
calling names and telling people to shut up again…try it yourself
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:44
Clearly you haven’t learn how to do it.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:45
shut up and grow up
Shartiblartfat November 23rd, 2014 at 14:23
Cops always make me nervous, even when I’m just watching them work. Having said that, the kid is a moron with no clue of normal behavior. This kid could have been a candidate for a Darwin Award, usually given posthumously.
Shartiblartfat November 23rd, 2014 at 15:23
Cops always make me nervous, even when I’m just watching them work. Having said that, the kid is a moron with no clue of normal behavior. This kid could have been a candidate for a Darwin Award, usually given posthumously.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 14:31
Bulls on Parade..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L4YrGaR8E4
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:31
Bulls on Parade..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L4YrGaR8E4
Toby Lynn November 23rd, 2014 at 14:43
whats really sad is fact everyone is so stressed out over all bullshit happening in the in our country ,we’re taking it out on each other.Right or wrong bout what happened, he should not have been out alone with the gun. Biggest issue I see with kids today and trouble they are getting into is lack of adult supervision.Race should never be used as anissue. I could care less if your skin is green,purple or orange. People need to be responsible for their actions and teach their children the same
Boehner-Monkey November 23rd, 2014 at 14:49
Right, but when racism is institutionalized and pardoned on a regular basis it becomes part of the paradigm.
Toby Lynn November 23rd, 2014 at 15:43
whats really sad is fact everyone is so stressed out over all bullshit happening in the in our country ,we’re taking it out on each other.Right or wrong bout what happened, he should not have been out alone with the gun. Biggest issue I see with kids today and trouble they are getting into is lack of adult supervision.Race should never be used as anissue. I could care less if your skin is green,purple or orange. People need to be responsible for their actions and teach their children the same
Boehner Monkey November 23rd, 2014 at 15:49
Right, but when racism is institutionalized and pardoned on a regular basis it becomes part of the paradigm.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 14:58
I hope the kid survives. The moral of this story is, never pull a gun out whether a toy or real in front of a cop.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:00
He apparently died this morning.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 15:07
That’s really sad, kids will be kids and sometimes they just don’t know. I’m an advocate of the police possessing only non lethal weapons just for this reason. To many people are being shot and killed.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:09
The problem is that there are situations where the non-lethal weapons that are currently available would not be applicable to the situation. They wouldn’t work and would most likely just get the police officer killed.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:15
what part of a 12 year old child shot by the police did you miss?
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:33
all of it. he has been here defending cops and killers and pretending a 12 year old has the maturity of an adult
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:34
seems to tell everyone you disagree with to shut up, afraid of facts and truth entering your rants.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:44
Says the one who got most of her comments deleted for calling everyone who disagreed with you a racist….
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:45
lmao, you hood is showing now, stony pulled it right out of you and now you have proved me correct about you.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:58
Keep telling yourself that and enjoy living in your delusional little fantasy world. You’re not worth wasting any more time on.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:01
Lol, are you going to get all whiny anger and curse, stomp your feet and yell shut up
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:48
lol, oopsy, seems your comment filled with foul langauge and uncontrolable rage was deleted.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 15:23
Yes, that is the legitimate argument, the police would be vulnerable, but that doesn’t address the problem that to many people are being shot and killed. Different or better training along with better laws limiting access to firearms would be a good start. Follow that with different police methods, i.e….if a call comes about a possible suspect with a gun, is it right to send a rookie beat cop to walk up to the suspect? Or should there be another way to control the person or situation?…
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:29
He was with a veteran police officer (10-15 years on the job). This was an unfortunate situation, but it ended the way it did because the kid made several fatal mistakes.
1. He violated the law by bring that airsoft gun to the park in the first place.
2. He made the mistake of picking the airsoft gun up off the table and tucking it into his waistband as the police car approached them.
3. He disregarded the order to put his hands up and instead chose to show the airsoft gun and reach for it.
Had it been a real gun (there are numerous instances of 12 year olds being in possession of live firearms) and the cop hesitated in order to investigate further, we might be reading a headline about a 12 year old killing a rookie police officer, instead.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:33
rookie cop, read trhe article
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 15:35
Yeah, we might be, but we’re not. That’s the point i’m trying to make. Kids will be kids, he made a few mistakes, he figured the cop would know it was a toy and pulled it out to show him. He hid it because he didn’t want to lose it, it’s all relevant, but he’s still dead and the police killed him. The situation could have ended differently if the police are trained to have a plan in place to control this type of situation with kids in a park without shooting.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 15:56
The cops weren’t psychic. They had no way of knowing that it was an airsoft gun. It’s easy for everyone to Monday morning quarterback this story now, because hindsight, as they say, is 20/20. The cop didn’t have that luxury. He told the kid to put his hands up. He reached for the gun instead. If he figured that the cop would somehow magically know, he figured wrong. The fact that he attempted to conceal it showed that he knew that he shouldn’t have it in the first place.
Cops have a split second to make a decision and a lifetime to live with the consequences.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 16:04
Right, the cop didn’t have the luxury. He only drew and fired immediately on sight of the gun because that is how he is trained. You will simply not see that THAT is the problem here. Did the cop give him enough time to say “look it’s toy”??
How about if he kept his distance first, and when the kid pulled the toy gun out he backed away instead of drawing and firing? The kid obviously wasn’t going to shoot him since it was a toy gun. You are concerned about the psychic abilities of the cop, what about the kid?
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:13
The cop told him to put his hands up. Had he put his hands up, the cop would have been able to frisk and secure the airsoft gun. He didn’t do that. He grabbed for it and he got shot as a consequence.
Backing away won’t help you outrun a bullet if it is a real gun. A cop is not going to wait to be fired upon before firing upon someone who makes a threatening move with a weapon (quickly reaching toward a weapon in the waistline while ignoring orders to keep your hands up qualifies as a threatening move). If cops did wait, there would be a lot more dead cops.
The clearest lesson to learn here is that if a police officer tells you to put your hands up, you put your hands up.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 16:22
No doubt that’s the lesson. It is also one of those times where a nonlethal weapon response would have worked.
Elizabeth Huckeba Walker November 23rd, 2014 at 17:17
Then the cops will be killed and if shooter is arrested everyone will be
crying it didn’t happen that way it wasn’t shooter’s fault.
The
people at fault are this kids parents, you teach a kid never to point a
gun real or play at another person. We don’t live in the cowboy,
cowgirl, Indians world anymore, every day here in Atlanta,Ga. and I mean
every day, it is killing, killing, killing, it is black on black,
killing kids laying in bed asleep, shooting people and leaving in middle
street.
Breaking and entering killing home owners, it is crazy.
I
live about 50 miles southwest of Atlanta, a kid who is associated with a
gang was roaming through a townhouse area looking for someone, went in
to a home went upstairs and killed a sleeping 13 year old on his
birthday, this child was a straight A student. The boy that did the
shooting was only 18. Everyone here mourned this child. He was one of
our home town kids his skin color didn’t matter.
I don’t know how I would react if I were a police officer, because God gave all of us survival instinct.
I have use a gun to protect my self before, it is not something you want to do.
If someone was pulling a gun and you don’t know if it is real or a play and point it at you what would you do.
People need to teach or kids about these toys, that look real.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:13
Bummer..
Another cop killing a kid, this time a 12 year old child..
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 15:58
I hope the kid survives. The moral of this story is, never pull a gun out whether a toy or real in front of a cop.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:00
He apparently died this morning.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 16:07
That’s really sad, kids will be kids and sometimes they just don’t know. I’m an advocate of the police possessing only non lethal weapons just for this reason. To many people are being shot and killed.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:09
The problem is that there are situations where the non-lethal weapons that are currently available would not be applicable to the situation. They wouldn’t work and would most likely just get the police officer killed.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 16:15
what part of a 12 year old child shot by the police did you miss?
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:33
all of it. he has been here defending cops and killers and pretending a 12 year old has the maturity of an adult
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:44
Says the one who got most of her comments deleted for calling everyone who disagreed with you a racist….
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:45
lmao, you hood is showing now, stony pulled it right out of you and now you have proved me correct about you.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:58
Keep telling yourself that and enjoy living in your delusional little fantasy world. You’re not worth wasting any more time on.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 17:01
Lol, are you going to get all whiny anger and curse, stomp your feet and yell shut up
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:48
lol, oopsy, seems your comment filled with foul langauge and uncontrolable rage was deleted.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 16:23
Yes, that is the legitimate argument, the police would be vulnerable, but that doesn’t address the problem that to many people are being shot and killed. Different or better training along with better laws limiting access to firearms would be a good start. Follow that with different police methods, i.e….if a call comes about a possible suspect with a gun, is it right to send a rookie beat cop to walk up to the suspect? Or should there be another way to control the person or situation?…
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:29
He was with a veteran police officer (10-15 years on the job). This was an unfortunate situation, but it ended the way it did because the kid made several fatal mistakes.
1. He violated the law by bring that airsoft gun to the park in the first place.
2. He made the mistake of picking the airsoft gun up off the table and tucking it into his waistband as the police car approached them.
3. He disregarded the order to put his hands up and instead chose to show the airsoft gun and reach for it.
Had it been a real gun (there are numerous instances of 12 year olds being in possession of live firearms) and the cop hesitated in order to investigate further, we might be reading a headline about a 12 year old killing a rookie police officer, instead.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:33
rookie cop, read trhe article
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 16:35
Yeah, we might be, but we’re not. That’s the point i’m trying to make. Kids will be kids, he made a few mistakes, he figured the cop would know it was a toy and pulled it out to show him. He hid it because he didn’t want to lose it, it’s all relevant, but he’s still dead and the police killed him. The situation could have ended differently if the police are trained to have a plan in place to control this type of situation with kids in a park without shooting.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:56
The cops weren’t psychic. They had no way of knowing that it was an airsoft gun. It’s easy for everyone to Monday morning quarterback this story now, because hindsight, as they say, is 20/20. The cop didn’t have that luxury. He told the kid to put his hands up. He reached for the gun instead. If he figured that the cop would somehow magically know, he figured wrong. The fact that he attempted to conceal it showed that he knew that he shouldn’t have it in the first place.
Cops have a split second to make a decision and a lifetime to live with the consequences.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 17:04
Right, the cop didn’t have the luxury. He only drew and fired immediately on sight of the gun because that is how he is trained. You will simply not see that THAT is the problem here. Did the cop give him enough time to say “look it’s toy”??
How about if he kept his distance first, and when the kid pulled the toy gun out he backed away instead of drawing and firing? The kid obviously wasn’t going to shoot him since it was a toy gun. You are concerned about the psychic abilities of the cop, what about the kid?
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 17:13
The cop told him to put his hands up. Had he put his hands up, the cop would have been able to frisk and secure the airsoft gun. He didn’t do that. He grabbed for it and he got shot as a consequence.
Backing away won’t help you outrun a bullet if it is a real gun. A cop is not going to wait to be fired upon before firing upon someone who makes a threatening move with a weapon (quickly reaching toward a weapon in the waistline while ignoring orders to keep your hands up qualifies as a threatening move). If cops did wait, there would be a lot more dead cops.
The clearest lesson to learn here is that if a police officer tells you to put your hands up, you put your hands up.
Foundryman November 23rd, 2014 at 17:22
No doubt that’s the lesson. It is also one of those times where a nonlethal weapon response would have worked.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 16:13
Bummer..
Another cop killing a kid, this time a 12 year old child..
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:10
It Was a Good Day..
Ice Cube..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoIgiwEVCUQ
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 16:10
It Was a Good Day..
Ice Cube..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoIgiwEVCUQ
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:15
Reading these comments makes me pity society, all black vs white, all the cop wanted to do was kill somebody, etc etc, do any of you people think or have a brain? For one stop calling it a toy, it looked almost identical to an automatic pistol especially from a far. Two the police heard he was pointing it at other kids, and in a society where school shootings are on the rise and also shootings on cops they need to be extremely cautious. They told him to put his hands up and what does the kid do? He lifts up his shirt showing the weapon and reaches for it. Now if I was a cop, and told someone regardless of age to not reach for a gun and they did I would not allow them to take out that weapon and wait to see what happened regardless of the kids age. Its an extremely unfortunate event but stop being naive and saying they just wanted to kill someone, think for a moment and look on past events, I too would have fired if he pulled out the gun after being told to put his hands up, because I am not going to sit back and wait for him to aim at me.
Boehner-Monkey November 23rd, 2014 at 15:23
When it becomes more about the safety of the cop than about the safety of the people they are supposed to serve and protect it becomes a problem. We need to start hiring less jacked up cops with temper problems and fear of protestors, etc.. and start hiring cops more interested in actually serving the people, which is supposed to be their job. The whole culture of law enforcement has become cavalier about permitting illegal violence against citizens and needs to be monitored, overseen, and reformed. (And videotaped often.)
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:28
So you would let someone pull a gun on you after being told to put their hands up and just wait to see what happens? Again you’re brainless, yes they serve us and they did their job. they told the kid to put his hands up for his safety and their own, he disobeyed those orders and pulled out a weapon. I highly doubt you would let someone do that and wait for their action instead of intervening if you had been that cop. and again protesters and someone pulling out a gun is completely different!! He could have been killed if it was real, he followed protocol and thats whats supposed to be done if someone pulls out a weapon on them after being told what to do in this instance put his hands up away from his weapon.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:31
not someone, a CHILD.
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:37
Okay yes it was a child, hmmm have children killed adults in the past? the answer is yes they have, just because its a child doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous. Think back to when you were a kid, if a cop told you to put up your hands would you just grab the gun in your pants? no I would have been scared to death and cried probably or put my hands up immediately. But he didn’t he reached and pulled out a weapon and the policeman acted accordingly
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:38
yuou have friends here spamming the same meme, take your garbage to your notrmal trolling locations
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:43
I am sorry you are naive and don’t want to face the reality of the world tracey.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:43
shut your mouth
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 19:27
Holy cow tracey, kids shoot people all the time. I know you read the papers.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 20:27
a child with a toy gun and the cop knew it was a child with a toy gun
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:42
seems you and your buddies are getting so angry and upset. maybe you need to shut your mouth
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:31
If ‘brandishing’ a toy gun was good enough to get a person shot by the police…
I would have been shot down in the 1960’s for brandishing my Mattel toy M-16 replica rifle…
Or my replica 30-30 lever action ‘The Rifleman’ toy rifle..(Chuck Conner).
Then there were the toy pistols with holsters I grew up with..(cap guns)
Guess I was just lucky I wasn’t born black..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:41
Oh shut your mouth stoney. You’ve seen the “toy gun” it looks almost exactly like an automatic pistol. And let me guess your toy guns back in the day had a orange piece on the tip too? and did you ever take out that weapon when a policemen told you to put your hands up? I’m guessing the answer is no, so don’t give me sob stories about being lucky you weren’t black or killed, you’re pulling race into an incident that had nothing to do with black white or yellow, maybe read past articles and realize many white teens or children have been killed by police too, stop being naive and ignorant.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:43
shut your mouth action
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:45
It’s not my fault you don’t want to face the facts and reality of the situation. Instead you rather live behind a thin wall of innocents, and excuses such as “toy gun”, race and what ever excused you can concoct for the events that unfolded
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:43
“Oh shut your mouth stoney”….
Is that how you begin a conversation?..
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 19:26
Did you brandish your gun at a police officer? Did you not comply with, said officer’s, demand to put your hands up? It wasn’t just the gun, it was reaching for it when the police officer told him to put his hands up.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:40
Nice to see you support the military/police state..
“law and order” that’s what it’s all about…
“obey the commands”..
“this is a lawful order, get your face on the ground now”…
maybe you have a license to carry a concealed weapon..
But after the police ground your face into the pavement, you might be allowed to go about your business..then again, if you make a fuss..
maybe not.
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:48
You know if you follow their orders and do as you’re told they typically won’t stuff your face into the pavement. Typically when you resist arrest is when those events will unfold, There not hard orders to follow, be silent and prove your innocence in court not on the same ground as the policeman who then have the right of physicality over you if you disobey.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:49
this is a child not an adult…oh but it is ablack child
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:57
You do realize many WHITE men and children have wrongfully been killed by cops don’t you? But because they aren’t black it doesn’t surface as often.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 16:13
you mean do we have stats that prove that just as many whites get killed by cops as blacks. Well, no but here are some stats that don’t make your point. http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 19:24
It is a stupid child. Darwinism…black or white.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 15:49
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuo7MgU9XpJZoHMdhpbEYgbN2HSEMyC4skp2B-KwBgiiOV-wTR
this is what i grew up pointing and popin off rolls of caps are my friends and strangers..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:51
But did a policeman ever tell you to put your hands up after hearing or seeing you point that at people or your friends? And did you then reach for said toy after being told not to? I will judge not, so therefor your personal stories have no correlation to the events that unfolded and you can’t then say its a miracle I wasn’t killed.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:52
you are wrong, cops today are thugs
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:55
Some maybe yes, others no. You cannot generalize every cop in the U.S. some yes have taken actions to the extreme but this cop followed protocol and that doesn’t make him a bad cop
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:56
you are wrong
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:58
Thank you again tracey for your wonderful and intelligent input its greatly desired and sought after in todays society.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:00
lol, stop whining. Why did you create a new moniker to post here?
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 19:24
Have you met every police officer in the US, on which to base this conclusion?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 17:18
You seem to live in an era of police paranoia..
If the police are so scared of children with toy guns..
Maybe they should find a less freaked out paranoid profession to make a living..
I can get them a job that pay just as well and doesn’t involve all that paranoia..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 18:45
they didnt know it was fake you idiot!! jesus you act like they knew it was fake and just killed him, it looked like a real gun and fired on him when he reached for it after he was told to put his hands up do you even know how to read properly???
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 19:31
I assume you are looking for some sort of response….
keep waiting…
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:50
do you have a brain?
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 15:54
Yes I do, and I have put out logical statements unlike you who only says shut your face. And holds onto the innocents of the world and clearly doesn’t see what happens in the world around them, examples are children used in war time, in africa, etc, children are innocent yes but they are also easily molded, molded to do good or bad and when told to put up their hands and they disobey and pull out their weapon then no I do not believe they have the right to stay innocent at that time and place.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 15:57
nonsense, we are not africa…why is it all you do is reference wars in black countries, are you obsessed and hiding from anonymous and using a new moniker?
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 18:44
why no but it proves a point that children aren’t as innocent as you make them out to be witless wonder
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 16:03
It’s about black vs. white. Who is at more risk of being killed by a cop.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/09/24/3571699/grand-jury-wont-charge-cops-in-wal-mart-killing-even-as-video-reveals-victim-never-pointed-his-gun/
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 16:04
No shots had been fired, why assume it is a real gun and loaded? Why not assume it is kid with a toy gun in a park playing with a toy. That is what kids do. He may have been rude by pointing it at people but that does not deserve a death sentence.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 16:16
So cops should wait until a couple of bullets go flying out of someone’s gun before treating it seriously? How much of a body count is acceptable for you before the cops treat it like a real gun?
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 17:37
When you are dealing with children playing in a park, yes the cops should wait till a shot is fired before using lethal force. They should take evasive action like it might be loaded but not fire. Why didn’t the officer stand behind a tree or some other obstacle and negotiate? Common sense seems to have been lost with the police. Think before shooting and killing or don’t try and enforce the law. Pretty simple really. If you are not cut out to be a cop because you can’t think before shooting, then you shouldn’t be a cop in law enforcement.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 17:52
So, who would you be willing to sacrifice? Another child? An innocent bystander? A family pet? Who catches the bullet before the police take action? I’m betting that if that kid had a real one and he shot one of your friends or somebody in your family with the cops standing right there, you would be asking why the cops didn’t shoot him sooner.
Hiding behind a tree and negotiating? And, again, had it been a real gun, the police wouldn’t have had line of sight and that kid could have killed someone in the process.
Try to forget all we have learned about the story since it happened and put yourself in the shoes of the police officers. They got a 911 call about someone waving a gun around and scaring people. The caller says that it MIGHT be a fake gun, but there is no confirmation of that assumption. You show up on the scene and as your vehicle approaches, you see the person in question (you don’t know his age) and a gun on the table. You then see him pick up the gun and tuck it into his waistband. You get out of your patrol car, knowing only that you just saw someone stick a gun in their pants. You draw your weapon and order them to raise their hands. Instead, they go for the gun. For all you know, they are intending to shoot you or someone else in the with it, so you have to make a split-second decision, so you shoot him to prevent him from shooting anyone else.
It’s only after the fact that you find out that it is a 12 year old kid and he’s carrying a replica gun and not a live firearm.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 18:07
You are making a lot of assumptions again. What did he see and when, we don’t know. Could he have taken evasive action and stood behind a tree or some other object and talk, more than likely. We don’t know why he was putting the toy gun in his waist band, it could be that is just the easiest way to carry it. Why did he take out but not point at the officer, we don’t know, the officer killed the child so we don’t get to ask. The officer should of not put himself in a position where he had to make a split second decision, he should of taken cover and talked, he failed and a child is dead because of it.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 18:18
Every article on this subject from every source states the same course of events. They are the events as I described them. Cops called. Show up. See kid conceal gun. Order kid to raise hands. Kid goes for gun instead. Kid gets shot. He didn’t point it at the officer because he didn’t make it that far. The moment he reached for that gun and began to pull it from his pants, he presented himself as an immediate threat and he was shot to neutralize that perceived immediate threat.
And no, the officer shouldn’t have taken cover and talked. Your repetition of that shows your ignorance of police procedure. He’s not a negotiator trying to talk a suicidal guy off a ledge or a hostage taker from freeing hostages. He’s a patrolman telling a person suspected of carrying a gun in a park to put his hands up.
None of the reports so far have stated that Tamir E. Rice (the kid) had any form of developmental disabilities, so he was old enough to know what “put your hands up” means. Tamir is the one who failed and THAT is why he’s dead.
Bottom line – If an armed police officer tells you to put your hands up, you put your damn hands up.
Had Tamir just done that, this wouldn’t be a story and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 19:30
Yes, the officer should have tried to diffuse the situation that is why people don’t respect the police anymore. If the police don’t respect the public, why should the public respect the police, other than the threat of death? Sounds like an evil way of life that I will fight against.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 19:21
Don’t you think that police officers families matter? If my family member was in law enforcement, I wouldn’t want him or her to wait and see if the gun is real, by being shot.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 16:15
“Now if I was a cop, and told someone regardless of age to not reach for a gun and they did I would not allow them to take out that weapon and wait to see what happened regardless of the kids age.” So killing kids is okay?
De Colo November 23rd, 2014 at 16:17
If the kid had a real gun and killed the cop, no one would care but the family but since the kid was shot while holding a gun that looked as realistic as it gets, then its a big deal
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 17:03
Wrong bucko. But lets look at something else that is in play here. HE WAS 12 YEARS OLD.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 17:16
So was a kid who killed his little brother and then himself. So was a kid who stabbed a 9 year old to death because he wanted to go to jail. So were the girls who committed the Slender Man attack. So was the kid who killed his younger brother trying to reenact a scene from a computer game.
His age is irrelevant. Being 12 years old doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to have a real gun and it doesn’t mean he can’t be a threat to himself or others.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 17:45
It’s a big deal because the officer didn’t do his job. The officer didn’t take evasive actions, ignored what the information was about the situation and went in ready to shoot, killing a child. The officer didn’t treat the child like a child with a toy and explain that it was wrong to point it at people, he killed him instead. The officer had choices and made the wrong ones.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 19:39
That is simply not true. No one here wants an officer shot and killed, by a 12 ye4ar old or anyone else. What we would like to see is better social skills taught at the academy, more community policing than shooting as a first option.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 20:04
Shooting wasn’t the first option. The first option was to tell the kid to put his hands up. Had he done that, there would be no story here. He didn’t. That’s why he’s dead.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 20:17
I’m talking about community policing, talking – defusing the situation, not the 3 seconds between the command and firing on him.
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:15
Reading these comments makes me pity society, all black vs white, all the cop wanted to do was kill somebody, etc etc, do any of you people think or have a brain? For one stop calling it a toy, it looked almost identical to an automatic pistol especially from a far. Two the police heard he was pointing it at other kids, and in a society where school shootings are on the rise and also shootings on cops they need to be extremely cautious. They told him to put his hands up and what does the kid do? He lifts up his shirt showing the weapon and reaches for it. Now if I was a cop, and told someone regardless of age to not reach for a gun and they did I would not allow them to take out that weapon and wait to see what happened regardless of the kids age. Its an extremely unfortunate event but stop being naive and saying they just wanted to kill someone, think for a moment and look on past events, I too would have fired if he pulled out the gun after being told to put his hands up, because I am not going to sit back and wait for him to aim at me.
Boehner Monkey November 23rd, 2014 at 16:23
When it becomes more about the safety of the cop than about the safety of the people they are supposed to serve and protect it becomes a problem. We need to start hiring less jacked up cops with temper problems and fear of protestors, etc.. and start hiring cops more interested in actually serving the people, which is supposed to be their job. The whole culture of law enforcement has become cavalier about permitting illegal violence against citizens and needs to be monitored, overseen, and reformed. (And videotaped often.)
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:28
So you would let someone pull a gun on you after being told to put their hands up and just wait to see what happens? Again you’re brainless, yes they serve us and they did their job. they told the kid to put his hands up for his safety and their own, he disobeyed those orders and pulled out a weapon. I highly doubt you would let someone do that and wait for their action instead of intervening if you had been that cop. and again protesters and someone pulling out a gun is completely different!! He could have been killed if it was real, he followed protocol and thats whats supposed to be done if someone pulls out a weapon on them after being told what to do in this instance put his hands up away from his weapon.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:31
not someone, a CHILD.
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:37
Okay yes it was a child, hmmm have children killed adults in the past? the answer is yes they have, just because its a child doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous. Think back to when you were a kid, if a cop told you to put up your hands would you just grab the gun in your pants? no I would have been scared to death and cried probably or put my hands up immediately. But he didn’t he reached and pulled out a weapon and the policeman acted accordingly
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:43
I am sorry you are naive and don’t want to face the reality of the world tracey.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 20:27
Holy cow tracey, kids shoot people all the time. I know you read the papers.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 21:27
a child with a toy gun and the cop knew it was a child with a toy gun
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:42
seems you and your buddies are getting so angry and upset. maybe you need to shut your mouth
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 16:31
If ‘brandishing’ a toy gun was good enough to get a person shot by the police…
I would have been shot down in the 1960’s for brandishing my Mattel toy M-16 replica rifle…
Or my replica 30-30 lever action ‘The Rifleman’ toy rifle..(Chuck Conner).
Then there were the toy pistols with holsters I grew up with..(cap guns)
Guess I was just lucky I wasn’t born black..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:45
It’s not my fault you don’t want to face the facts and reality of the situation. Instead you rather live behind a thin wall of innocents, and excuses such as “toy gun”, race and what ever excused you can concoct for the events that unfolded
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 20:26
Did you brandish your gun at a police officer? Did you not comply with, said officer’s, demand to put your hands up? It wasn’t just the gun, it was reaching for it when the police officer told him to put his hands up.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 16:40
Nice to see you support the military/police state..
“law and order” that’s what it’s all about…
“obey the commands”..
“this is a lawful order, get your face on the ground now”…
maybe you have a license to carry a concealed weapon..
But after the police ground your face into the pavement, you might be allowed to go about your business..then again, if you make a fuss..
maybe not.
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:48
You know if you follow their orders and do as you’re told they typically won’t stuff your face into the pavement. Typically when you resist arrest is when those events will unfold, There not hard orders to follow, be silent and prove your innocence in court not on the same ground as the policeman who then have the right of physicality over you if you disobey.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:49
this is a child not an adult…oh but it is ablack child
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:57
You do realize many WHITE men and children have wrongfully been killed by cops don’t you? But because they aren’t black it doesn’t surface as often.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 17:13
you mean do we have stats that prove that just as many whites get killed by cops as blacks. Well, no but here are some stats that don’t make your point. http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 20:24
It is a stupid child. Darwinism…black or white.
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 16:49
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuo7MgU9XpJZoHMdhpbEYgbN2HSEMyC4skp2B-KwBgiiOV-wTR
this is what i grew up pointing and popin off rolls of caps at my friends and strangers..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:51
But did a policeman ever tell you to put your hands up after hearing or seeing you point that at people or your friends? And did you then reach for said toy after being told not to? I will judge not, so therefor your personal stories have no correlation to the events that unfolded and you can’t then say its a miracle I wasn’t killed.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:52
you are wrong, cops today are thugs
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:55
Some maybe yes, others no. You cannot generalize every cop in the U.S. some yes have taken actions to the extreme but this cop followed protocol and that doesn’t make him a bad cop
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:58
Thank you again tracey for your wonderful and intelligent input its greatly desired and sought after in todays society.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 17:00
lol, stop whining. Why did you create a new moniker to post here?
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 20:24
Have you met every police officer in the US, on which to base this conclusion?
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 18:18
You seem to live in an era of police paranoia..
If the police are so scared of children with toy guns..
Maybe they should find a less freaked out paranoid profession to make a living..
I can get them a job that pay just as well and doesn’t involve all that paranoia..
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 19:45
they didnt know it was fake you idiot!! jesus you act like they knew it was fake and just killed him, it looked like a real gun and fired on him when he reached for it after he was told to put his hands up do you even know how to read properly???
StoneyCurtisll November 23rd, 2014 at 20:31
I assume you are looking for some sort of response….
keep waiting…
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:50
do you have a brain?
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 16:54
Yes I do, and I have put out logical statements unlike you who only says shut your face. And holds onto the innocents of the world and clearly doesn’t see what happens in the world around them, examples are children used in war time, in africa, etc, children are innocent yes but they are also easily molded, molded to do good or bad and when told to put up their hands and they disobey and pull out their weapon then no I do not believe they have the right to stay innocent at that time and place.
tracey marie November 23rd, 2014 at 16:57
nonsense, we are not africa…why is it all you do is reference wars in black countries, are you obsessed and hiding from anonymous and using a new moniker?
Action Jackson November 23rd, 2014 at 19:44
why no but it proves a point that children aren’t as innocent as you make them out to be witless wonder
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 17:03
It’s about black vs. white. Who is at more risk of being killed by a cop.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/09/24/3571699/grand-jury-wont-charge-cops-in-wal-mart-killing-even-as-video-reveals-victim-never-pointed-his-gun/
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 17:04
No shots had been fired, why assume it is a real gun and loaded? Why not assume it is kid with a toy gun in a park playing with a toy. That is what kids do. He may have been rude by pointing it at people but that does not deserve a death sentence.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 17:16
So cops should wait until a couple of bullets go flying out of someone’s gun before treating it seriously? How much of a body count is acceptable for you before the cops treat it like a real gun?
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 18:37
When you are dealing with children playing in a park, yes the cops should wait till a shot is fired before using lethal force. They should take evasive action like it might be loaded but not fire. Why didn’t the officer stand behind a tree or some other obstacle and negotiate? Common sense seems to have been lost with the police. Think before shooting and killing or don’t try and enforce the law. Pretty simple really. If you are not cut out to be a cop because you can’t think before shooting, then you shouldn’t be a cop in law enforcement.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 18:52
So, who would you be willing to sacrifice? Another child? An innocent bystander? A family pet? Who catches the bullet before the police take action? I’m betting that if that kid had a real one and he shot one of your friends or somebody in your family with the cops standing right there, you would be asking why the cops didn’t shoot him sooner.
Hiding behind a tree and negotiating? And, again, had it been a real gun, the police wouldn’t have had line of sight and that kid could have killed someone in the process.
Try to forget all we have learned about the story since it happened and put yourself in the shoes of the police officers. They got a 911 call about someone waving a gun around and scaring people. The caller says that it MIGHT be a fake gun, but there is no confirmation of that assumption. You show up on the scene and as your vehicle approaches, you see the person in question (you don’t know his age) and a gun on the table. You then see him pick up the gun and tuck it into his waistband. You get out of your patrol car, knowing only that you just saw someone stick a gun in their pants. You draw your weapon and order them to raise their hands. Instead, they go for the gun. For all you know, they are intending to shoot you or someone else in the with it, so you have to make a split-second decision, so you shoot him to prevent him from shooting anyone else.
It’s only after the fact that you find out that it is a 12 year old kid and he’s carrying a replica gun and not a live firearm.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 19:07
You are making a lot of assumptions again. What did he see and when, we don’t know. Could he have taken evasive action and stood behind a tree or some other object and talk, more than likely. We don’t know why he was putting the toy gun in his waist band, it could be that is just the easiest way to carry it. Why did he take out but not point at the officer, we don’t know, the officer killed the child so we don’t get to ask. The officer should of not put himself in a position where he had to make a split second decision, he should of taken cover and talked, he failed and a child is dead because of it.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 19:18
Every article on this subject from every source states the same course of events. They are the events as I described them. Cops called. Show up. See kid conceal gun. Order kid to raise hands. Kid goes for gun instead. Kid gets shot. He didn’t point it at the officer because he didn’t make it that far. The moment he reached for that gun and began to pull it from his pants, he presented himself as an immediate threat and he was shot to neutralize that perceived immediate threat.
And no, the officer shouldn’t have taken cover and talked. Your repetition of that shows your ignorance of police procedure. He’s not a negotiator trying to talk a suicidal guy off a ledge or a hostage taker from freeing hostages. He’s a patrolman telling a person suspected of carrying a gun in a park to put his hands up.
None of the reports so far have stated that Tamir E. Rice (the kid) had any form of developmental disabilities, so he was old enough to know what “put your hands up” means. Tamir is the one who failed and THAT is why he’s dead.
Bottom line – If an armed police officer tells you to put your hands up, you put your damn hands up.
Had Tamir just done that, this wouldn’t be a story and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 20:30
Yes, the officer should have tried to diffuse the situation that is why people don’t respect the police anymore. If the police don’t respect the public, why should the public respect the police, other than the threat of death? Sounds like an evil way of life that I will fight against.
katyladygolfer November 23rd, 2014 at 20:21
Don’t you think that police officers families matter? If my family member was in law enforcement, I wouldn’t want him or her to wait and see if the gun is real, by being shot.
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 17:15
“Now if I was a cop, and told someone regardless of age to not reach for a gun and they did I would not allow them to take out that weapon and wait to see what happened regardless of the kids age.” So killing kids is okay?
De Colo November 23rd, 2014 at 17:17
If the kid had a real gun and killed the cop, no one would care but the family but since the kid was shot while holding a gun that looked as realistic as it gets, then its a big deal
Kim Serrahn November 23rd, 2014 at 18:03
Wrong bucko. But lets look at something else that is in play here. HE WAS 12 YEARS OLD.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 18:16
So was a kid who killed his little brother and then himself. So was a kid who stabbed a 9 year old to death because he wanted to go to jail. So were the girls who committed the Slender Man attack. So was the kid who killed his younger brother trying to reenact a scene from a computer game.
His age is irrelevant. Being 12 years old doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to have a real gun and it doesn’t mean he can’t be a threat to himself or others.
mea_mark November 23rd, 2014 at 18:45
It’s a big deal because the officer didn’t do his job. The officer didn’t take evasive actions, ignored what the information was about the situation and went in ready to shoot, killing a child. The officer didn’t treat the child like a child with a toy and explain that it was wrong to point it at people, he killed him instead. The officer had choices and made the wrong ones.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 20:39
That is simply not true. No one here wants an officer shot and killed, by a 12 ye4ar old or anyone else. What we would like to see is better social skills taught at the academy, more community policing than shooting as a first option.
RD81 November 23rd, 2014 at 21:04
Shooting wasn’t the first option. The first option was to tell the kid to put his hands up. Had he done that, there would be no story here. He didn’t. That’s why he’s dead.
Carla Akins November 23rd, 2014 at 21:17
I’m talking about community policing, talking – defusing the situation, not the 3 seconds between the command and firing on him.