Less Carbon Taxes: More Carbon Emissions
It is among the more obvious conclusions, but when you charge a lower price for something you get more of it. Evidence from Australia’s recent shift to a prime minister who is opposed to reducing carbon emissions:
Click here for reuse options!Back in 2011, Australia’s Labor Party enacted a national carbon tax as a way of tackling global warming. The tax took effect in 2012, and emissions promptly fell over the next two years. But the policy was also highly unpopular with voters.
So, in July 2014, a newly-elected Australian government repealed the tax. And the exact opposite happened. Carbon-dioxide emissions from the country’s electricity sector rose sharply in the 100 days after repeal — and are projected to increase by record amounts over this fiscal year.
Copyright 2014 Liberaland
By: Stuart Shapiro
Stuart is a professor and the Director of the Public Policy
program at the Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers
University. He teaches economics and cost-benefit analysis and studies
regulation in the United States at both the federal and state levels.
Prior to coming to Rutgers, Stuart worked for five years at the Office
of Management and Budget in Washington under Presidents Clinton and
George W. Bush.
72 responses to Less Carbon Taxes: More Carbon Emissions
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KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker November 17th, 2014 at 17:41
Causes and effects of selfish capitalism.
Their children and grandchildren will view their actions quite poorly in the decades to come.
Glen November 17th, 2014 at 21:31
Many younger people here already view their actions quite poorly.
Bob Cronos November 18th, 2014 at 17:36
“Causes and effects of selfish capitalism.” — Says the guy surrounded by products and services produced by capitalism…
KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker November 18th, 2014 at 18:55
I’m actually surrounded by roads, sidewalks, bridges, sidewalks, streetlights, public schools, parks, hospitals and other government infrastructure. In fact I’m talking to you on the internet which was championed by government and largely developed by tax incentives and public funding. Government is not evil, it’s just what we decide is important and collectively do together.
Bob Cronos November 18th, 2014 at 20:44
Sorry, that is public infrastructure, bought, paid for and owned by the public, not the government… And how did the public pay for all that infrastructure? That’s right, by participating in a capitalist economic system and then pooling some of our money together to build it…
KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker November 18th, 2014 at 21:13
Doofuss!
A government of the people, for the people.
Were you dropped on your head when you were young or did you eat paint chips?
Bob Cronos November 19th, 2014 at 00:10
That’s it? Nothing intelligent to say?
KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker November 17th, 2014 at 18:41
Causes and effects of selfish capitalism.
Their children and grandchildren will view their actions quite poorly in the decades to come.
Glen November 17th, 2014 at 22:31
Many younger people here already view their actions quite poorly.
Bob Cronos November 18th, 2014 at 18:36
“Causes and effects of selfish capitalism.” — Says the guy surrounded by products and services produced by capitalism…
KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker November 18th, 2014 at 19:55
I’m actually surrounded by roads, sidewalks, bridges, sidewalks, streetlights, public schools, parks, hospitals and other government infrastructure. In fact I’m talking to you on the internet which was championed by government and largely developed by tax incentives and public funding. Government is not evil, it’s just what we decide is important and collectively do together.
Bob Cronos November 18th, 2014 at 21:44
Sorry, that is public infrastructure, bought, paid for and owned by the public, not the government… And how did the public pay for all that infrastructure? That’s right, by participating in a capitalist economic system and then pooling some of our money together to build it…
KABoink_after_wingnut_hacker November 18th, 2014 at 22:13
Doofuss!
A government of the people, for the people.
Were you dropped on your head when you were young or did you eat paint chips?
Bob Cronos November 19th, 2014 at 01:10
That’s it? Nothing intelligent to say?
Red Eye Robot November 17th, 2014 at 18:03
Foolish Humans! letting that global carbon tax expire in 1600
mea_mark November 17th, 2014 at 18:36
Do you ever get tired of posting stupid stuff?
Roctuna November 17th, 2014 at 19:53
I’d say no, he does not.
Roctuna November 17th, 2014 at 19:53
What?! Do you just not see that steeply sloped line off to the right? Are you familiar with the term “order of magnitude”? I think not.
Obewon November 17th, 2014 at 21:01
If we believe Red Eye Radio’s graph then CO2 was less than 340 p.p.m. in 2000 skyrocketing to 2014’s 401 p.p.m.! http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/index.html
…Meanwhile back in reality land on the Earth, CO2 rises +3.5 p.p.m. per year. Here’s the real CO2 history on Earth from 800,000 years ago to 2012 in a 3 minute movie. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html
Red Eye Robot November 17th, 2014 at 19:03
Foolish Humans! letting that global carbon tax expire in 1600
mea_mark November 17th, 2014 at 19:36
Do you ever get tired of posting stupid stuff?
Roctuna November 17th, 2014 at 20:53
I’d say no, he does not.
Roctuna November 17th, 2014 at 20:53
What?! Do you just not see that steeply sloped line off to the right? Are you familiar with the term “order of magnitude”? I think not.
Obewon November 17th, 2014 at 22:01
Believing Red Eye Radio’s graph CO2 was 340 p.p.m. in 2000 (1986) skyrocketing to 2014’s 401 p.p.m.! Red Eye proves we need carbon taxes in the top OECD nations now. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/index.html
Earth’s CO2’s record acceleration continues rising +2.5 to 3 p.p.m. per year. Here’s the real CO2 history on Earth from 800,000 years ago to 2012 in a 3 minute movie. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html
Red Eye Robot November 17th, 2014 at 18:24
Wisely the scientifically astute Devonians saw past their own selfish needs and passed a world carbon tax that lowered atmospheric CO2 from 4000 ppm 350,000,000 years ago to just over 200 ppm in 1600
Roctuna November 17th, 2014 at 19:09
Um no. The Devonian marked the first major colonization of the land by plants more advanced than lichens. This radically changed the carbon cycle on the planet and the distribution of the carbon budget leading to, wait for it, the Carboniferous, which trapped unbelievably large volumes of organic carbon in the biomass that today we call coal. Nice try but thouroughly bogus conclusion from your graph.
Red Eye Robot November 17th, 2014 at 19:24
Wisely the scientifically astute Devonians saw past their own selfish needs and passed a world carbon tax that lowered atmospheric CO2 from 4000 ppm 350,000,000 years ago to just over 200 ppm in 1600
Roctuna November 17th, 2014 at 20:09
Um no. The Devonian marked the first major colonization of the land by plants more advanced than lichens. This radically changed the carbon cycle on the planet and the distribution of the carbon budget leading to, wait for it, the Carboniferous, which trapped unbelievably large volumes of organic carbon in the biomass that today we call coal. Nice try but thouroughly bogus conclusion from your graph. On top of that, the planet was one big tropical jungle in the Devonian and pretty darn hot. The greenhouse effect worked then too. Not going to slip some ass-backward geoscience interpretation on this site while I’m around.
mea_mark November 17th, 2014 at 18:45
I guess global warming and the record high temperatures aren’t a problem for them. Oh wait, weren’t they experiencing temperatures over 120 degrees last summer? Well, let’s see how they feel about things in a couple months when it really gets hot for them again.
Glen November 17th, 2014 at 21:21
There were a few places that saw over 50 degrees (this is Australia, we don’t use the outdated Fahrenheit system). And believe me, we’re already feeling it – you may have heard about the heat during G20.
Bob Cronos November 18th, 2014 at 17:13
But carbon emissions were down about 6 million tons last year… Shouldn’t that have caused the temperature to go down? Or perhaps climate is a bit more complicated than just “more C02 = higher temperatures”…
mea_mark November 18th, 2014 at 17:32
That was just Australia. This is a global problem as air has a tendency to circulate world-wide.
Yes though, it is more complicated than just CO2, methane is far worse but only last about 10 years. One ‘methane burp’ from somewhere like Siberia could cause temps to escalate significantly world-wide, causing significant problems for a decade or so. Isn’t it just lovely how we have created such a mess for ourselves and our children?
Bob Cronos November 19th, 2014 at 00:21
“One ‘methane burp’ from somewhere like Siberia” — So man can’t really control the weather now can we?
Obewon November 19th, 2014 at 01:24
‘Humans burning fossil fuels cause 80% of modern global warming climate change with 20% caused by human deforestation’-NASA
Melting Siberian permafrost releases Methane, which is 24 times+ more Greenhouse gas destructive than CO2 because “Noaa has recorded above-average global temperatures for each September in the last 38 years. The last September with below 20th century average temperatures occurred in 1976″Noaa
All of the world’s top 10 warmest years have occurred since 2000. Climate studies have shown the world is poised for more warmth as the amounts of carbon dioxide rise. Last month, figures revealed carbon dioxide levels rose by the highest amount in 30 years in 2013. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/20/2014-on-track-to-be-hottest-year-on-record-says-us-science-agency
Bob Cronos November 19th, 2014 at 01:30
” Last month, figures revealed carbon dioxide levels rose by the highest amount in 30 years in 2013″ — Yet we’re in the middle of a deep freeze before Thanksgiving… Go figure…
Obewon November 19th, 2014 at 01:51
Yet you have no idea the globe is round, it’s summer in Australia and anywhere below the equator.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 01:01
“The world is poised for more warmth as the amounts of carbon dioxide rise.” – Yet that has been proven false for the last 20 years…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 01:10
Bob Cronos you’ve “been proven false for the last 20 years.”
^Look Up.^ You were preemptively debunked again as always e.g.
“program manager at the Goddard Institute, told PolitiFact that the institute’s data produces the following ranking of hottest years. Items on the same line are statistically tied.
1-2: 2010, 2005
3-8: 2007, 1998, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2009
9-12: 2012, 2011, 2001, 2004
13: 2008
14: 1997
15: 1995
This analysis shows that 13 of the warmest years have occurred in the past 15 years. Alternately, one could say that 12 of the warmest years came in the last 13.” http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/feb/15/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-12-hottest-years-record-have-com/ “Data from NASA shows 13 of the hottest years on record have come in the last 15, and by a different data set produced by NOAA, 14 of the hottest years on record have come in the last 15.”
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 00:34
The government has a great retirement plan for you too…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 00:45
Do your parents still tie your shoes? SS & Medicare surpluses = $5 trillion+ today and that’s why actuarial’s guarantee their solvency ensuring every beneficiary is always paid on-time as promised.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 00:59
Ah yes, that $17 TRILLION debt means nothing – as long as the taxpayers keep paying their masters the interest of course…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 01:06
^Look up^ you were preemptively debunked as always: “Current Debt Held by the Public $12,880,369,792,235.66”
If you bought a $17.95 M house having $5.08 M in equity your “debt ” is $12.88 M. Now exchange M for B and that is why “Current Debt Held by the Public $12,880,369,792,235.66.”
Jeez you know less about SS & Medicare surpluses than you do about Climate! Fantasy News Casters debunked again, as always.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 19:42
The Social Security Trust Fund’s lack of any actual economic assets was noted back in 2000 by Clinton’s Office of Management and Budget, which wrote that,
“These balances are available to finance future benefit payments … only in a bookkeeping sense. They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the futureto fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits, or other expenditures.”
mea_mark November 19th, 2014 at 11:01
We can certainly send it out of control though and that is what we need to stop doing.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 00:12
It is not possible for man to control the earths climate by manipulating a minor greenhouse gas by a fraction of a percent…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 00:35
Try this experiment: Place a garden hose in your tailpipe with the other end in your mouth with all windows rolled up and ventilation off, start the vehicle while enclosed in a garage with doors down “manipulating a minor greenhouse gas by a fraction of a percent.”
That’s why 97% of Climatologists with NASA, NOAA, UK MET & the U.N. each proved that you climate deniers are scientifically illiterate. Each new year and decade set higher globally warmed climate records since the 1950’s!
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 01:25
“each proved that you climate deniers are scientifically illiterate.” Really? How many of their predictions have actually come true? That’s right, NONE of them… So who’s the denier?
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 01:28
You remain 100% errant on every post as preemptively debunked for your well proven scientific illiteracy.
Is Cronos ‘Stupid? Delusional? Or lying? Or all three?’ A: 2+ of 3!
mea_mark November 17th, 2014 at 18:45
I guess global warming and the record high temperatures aren’t a problem for them. Oh wait, weren’t they experiencing temperatures over 120 degrees last summer? Well, let’s see how they feel about things in a couple months when it really gets hot for them again.
mea_mark November 17th, 2014 at 19:45
I guess global warming and the record high temperatures aren’t a problem for them. Oh wait, weren’t they experiencing temperatures over 120 degrees last summer? Well, let’s see how they feel about things in a couple months when it really gets hot for them again.
Glen November 17th, 2014 at 22:21
There were a few places that saw over 50 degrees (this is Australia, we don’t use the outdated Fahrenheit system). And believe me, we’re already feeling it – you may have heard about the heat during G20.
Bob Cronos November 18th, 2014 at 18:13
But carbon emissions were down about 6 million tons last year… Shouldn’t that have caused the temperature to go down? Or perhaps climate is a bit more complicated than just “more C02 = higher temperatures”…
mea_mark November 18th, 2014 at 18:32
That was just Australia. This is a global problem as air has a tendency to circulate world-wide.
Yes though, it is more complicated than just CO2, methane is far worse but only last about 10 years. One ‘methane burp’ from somewhere like Siberia could cause temps to escalate significantly world-wide, causing significant problems for a decade or so. Isn’t it just lovely how we have created such a mess for ourselves and our children?
Bob Cronos November 19th, 2014 at 01:21
“One ‘methane burp’ from somewhere like Siberia” — So man can’t really control the weather now can we?
Obewon November 19th, 2014 at 02:24
‘Humans burning fossil fuels cause 80% of modern global warming climate change with 20% caused by human deforestation’-NASA!
Melting Siberian permafrost releases Methane, which is 24 times+ more Greenhouse gas destructive than CO2 because; “Noaa has recorded above-average global temperatures for each September in the last 38 years. The last September with below 20th century average temperatures occurred in 1976”-Noaa.
All of the world’s top 10 warmest years have occurred since 2000. Climate studies have shown the world is poised for more warmth as the amounts of carbon dioxide rise. Last month, figures revealed carbon dioxide levels rose by the highest amount in 30 years in 2013. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/20/2014-on-track-to-be-hottest-year-on-record-says-us-science-agency
Bob Cronos November 19th, 2014 at 02:30
” Last month, figures revealed carbon dioxide levels rose by the highest amount in 30 years in 2013″ — Yet we’re in the middle of a deep freeze before Thanksgiving… Go figure…
Obewon November 19th, 2014 at 02:51
Yet you seemingly have no idea that globally “the last September with below 20th century average temperatures occurred in 1976”-Noaa. And “The world is poised for more warmth as the amounts of carbon dioxide rise.” Earth is a sphere. Summer in Australia begins December 21st and anywhere below the equator.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 02:01
“The world is poised for more warmth as the amounts of carbon dioxide rise.” – Yet that has been proven false for the last 20 years…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 02:10
Bob Cronos you’ve “been proven false for the last 20 years.” You know Fossil Fuel smog & mercury fallout kills brain cells. That’s why we need a polluters carbon tax, saving millions of U.S. lives now lost to Koch bros Oil & coal polluters. Clean renewable energy is Zero polluting solar, wind, hydroelectric, tidal, biomass & geothermal.
Now ^Look Up.^ You were preemptively debunked again as always e.g. “program manager at the Goddard Institute, told PolitiFact that the institute’s data produces the following ranking of hottest years. Items on the same line are statistically tied.
1-2: 2010, 2005
3-8: 2007, 1998, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2009
9-12: 2012, 2011, 2001, 2004
13: 2008
14: 1997
15: 1995
This analysis shows that 13 of the warmest years have occurred in the past 15 years. Alternately, one could say that 12 of the warmest years came in the last 13.”-NASA Goddard. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/feb/15/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-12-hottest-years-record-have-com/ “Data from NASA shows 13 of the hottest years on record have come in the last 15, and by a different data set produced by NOAA, 14 of the hottest years on record have come in the last 15.”
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 01:23
Oh Shit, we’re all gonna die! I wish I could stop exhaling to you know, save the earth and stuff…
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 01:34
The government has a great retirement plan for you too…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 01:45
Do your parents still tie your shoes? SS & Medicare surpluses = $5 trillion+ today and that’s why actuarial’s guarantee their solvency ensuring every beneficiary is always paid on-time as promised.
“Current Debt Held by the Public $12,880,369,792,235.66
Intragovernmental Holdings (SS/Medicare Surplusses) $5,085,483,690,728.00 11/18/2014” http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtOwner
Do let us know if you can ever prove anything you claim via peer-reviewed facts cited by unbiased linked sources as above.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 01:59
Ah yes, that $17 TRILLION debt means nothing – as long as the taxpayers keep paying their masters the interest of course…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 02:06
^Look up^ you were preemptively debunked again as always: “Current Debt Held by the Public $12,880,369,792,235.66”
If you bought a $17.95 M house having $5.08 M in equity your “debt ” is $12.88 M. Now exchange M for T and that is why “Current Debt Held by the Public $12,880,369,792,235.66.”
Jeez you know less about SS & Medicare surpluses than you do about Climate! Fantasy News Casters debunked again, as always.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 20:42
The Social Security Trust Fund’s lack of any actual economic assets was noted back in 2000 by Clinton’s Office of Management and Budget, which wrote that,
“These balances are available to finance future benefit payments … only in a bookkeeping sense. They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the futureto fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits, or other expenditures.”
mea_mark November 19th, 2014 at 12:01
We can certainly send it out of control though and that is what we need to stop doing.
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 01:12
It is not possible for man to control the earths climate by manipulating a minor greenhouse gas by a fraction of a percent…
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 01:35
Try this experiment: Place a garden hose in your tailpipe with the other end in your mouth in the drivers seat with all of your windows rolled up and any ventilation off. Start the vehicle while enclosed in a garage with all doors and windows closed “manipulating a minor greenhouse gas by a fraction of a percent.”
That’s why 97% of Climatologists with NASA, NOAA, UK MET & the U.N. each proved that you climate deniers are scientifically illiterate. Each new year and decade set higher globally warmed climate records since the 1950’s!
E.g. POTUS Obama 2/12/2013: “The 12 hottest years on record have all come in the last 15.” Data from NASA shows 13 of the hottest years on record have come in the last 15, and by a different data set produced by NOAA, 14 of the hottest years on record have come in the last 15. Obama was actually over-cautious in his statement, so we rate his statement True!-Nonpartisan Pulitzer Prize winning PolitiFact http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/feb/15/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-12-hottest-years-record-have-com/
Bob Cronos November 20th, 2014 at 02:25
“each proved that you climate deniers are scientifically illiterate.” Really? How many of their predictions have actually come true? That’s right, NONE of them… So who’s the denier?
Obewon November 20th, 2014 at 02:28
You remain 100% errant on every post as preemptively debunked for your well proven scientific illiteracy.
Is Bob ‘Lying? Delusional? Climate illiterate? Or all 3?’ A: 2+ of 3!
Glen November 17th, 2014 at 21:24
I would just like to say that, as an Australian, Tony Abbott does NOT represent my views in any way, shape, or form. He is basically Australia’s equivalent of George W Bush… hopefully, Australians won’t give him a second term, though.
Glen November 17th, 2014 at 22:24
I would just like to say that, as an Australian, Tony Abbott does NOT represent my views in any way, shape, or form. He is basically Australia’s equivalent of George W Bush… hopefully, Australians won’t give him a second term, though.