Obamacare Architect Was Right: ‘Stupid’ American Voters ‘Don’t Care About The Uninsured’
Romneycare/Obamacare architect and MIT Economics Professor Jonathan Gruber is back in the right-wing crosshairs over another recently-surfaced comment he made about the relative intelligence of the American voter, this time at a Washington University talk in St. Louis on October 4, 2013. Just yesterday morning, Gruber was apologizing for remarks he made in 2012 about the “stupidity of the American voter,” when video surfaced of Gruber explaining how the Affordable Care Act’s “Cadillac Tax” got passed. Instead of taxing individual employees’ health plans, a staffer for then-Senator John Kerry suggested taxing the companies instead:
“We said ‘Well, that’s pretty much the same thing, why does it matter?’ He said ‘You’ll see!’ And they proposed it, and that passed, because the American voter is too stupid to understand the difference.”
That quote is actually part of a longer story which, if smart guys being dicks about being smart is your thing, is worth checking out. Personally, I have no problem with the notion that the average American voter is not as smart as an MIT professor, but like “racist” and “immigration reform,” the word “stupid” is a red cape for right-wingers. In the larger context, Gruber smugly talks about how the groups he usually talks to aren’t “as intelligent” as this college crowd, and recounts a conversation with one such dullard…READ MORE
Copyright 2014 Liberaland
By: Tommy Christopher
Tommy Christopher is The Daily Banter's White House Correspondent and Political Analyst. He's been a political reporter and liberal commentator since 2007, and has covered the White House since the beginning of the Obama administration, first for PoliticsDaily, and then for Mediaite. Christopher is a frequent guest on a variety of television, radio, and online programs, and was the villain in the documentaries The Audacity of Democracy and Hating Breitbart. He's also That Guy Who Live-Tweeted His Own Heart Attack, and the only person to have ever received public apologies from both Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.
Suzanne McFly November 12th, 2014 at 19:26
Comments from the article on the Daily Banter….
H. H. Miller formerlywhatithink • 5 hours ago
“Elections have consequences” Barack Obama. Suck it. see more 1
•
Lady Willpower H. H. Miller • 3 hours ago
Remember that when you lose the presidential election AGAIN in two years.
•
H. H. Miller Lady Willpower • 2 hours ago
Who needs (or wants) the presidency?
•
Lady Willpower H. H. Miller • 25 minutes ago
Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.
nicole H. H. Miller • 42 minutes ago
idiot.
I guess that is the new rwnj way of thinking, we win in the midterms because we simply don’t want the Presidency? How do these genius’ not forget how to inhale or exhale?
Tommy6860 November 12th, 2014 at 19:41
I LMAO until this^ reality set in!
Suzanne McFly November 12th, 2014 at 20:26
Comments from the article on the Daily Banter….
H. H. Miller formerlywhatithink • 5 hours ago
“Elections have consequences” Barack Obama. Suck it. see more 1
•
Lady Willpower H. H. Miller • 3 hours ago
Remember that when you lose the presidential election AGAIN in two years.
•
H. H. Miller Lady Willpower • 2 hours ago
Who needs (or wants) the presidency?
•
Lady Willpower H. H. Miller • 25 minutes ago
Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.
nicole H. H. Miller • 42 minutes ago
idiot.
I guess that is the new rwnj way of thinking, we win in the midterms because we simply don’t want the Presidency? How do these genius’ not forget how to inhale or exhale?
Tommy6860 November 12th, 2014 at 20:41
I LMAO until this^ reality set in!
Chinese Democracy November 12th, 2014 at 20:27
Megyn Kelly Loses It With Democratic Guest Over Obamacare ‘Lies’
The Fox News host had to bury her head in her hands during an interview with Democratic strategist and pollster Bernard Whitman. On Tuesday night, the two were debating the recent video footage showing Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist Jonathan Gruber, who helped draft the Affordable Care Act, saying that the “stupidity of the American voter” helped to pass Obamacare in 2010.
Whitman, to Kelly’s disbelief, argued that the Affordable Care Act has in fact brought success and that “everybody knew exactly what they were getting.”
“Oh, my God,” Kelly said. “Seriously? Seriously? Everyone knew what they were getting? Is that what you want the viewers to believe?”
“My head is about to explode,”
… if only it would have exploded. Fox ratings may have gone up .4 of a % point
http://goo.gl/HdPyAn
Obewon November 12th, 2014 at 21:23
“Jesus is a white guy too!”-Megyn Kelly later admitted ‘I just found out Jesus may not be a white guy.’ Fox heads exploded!
Tuesday, November 11 , 2014 FOXN Total Day Age 25-54 Ad Demo (242,000) P2+ Viewers 2 years old! And above (1,306 242) http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/11/12/cable-news-ratings-for-tuesday-november-11-2014/326681/
Tommy6860 November 12th, 2014 at 19:45
And as of right now a third video has emerged. Of course it’s reported by the RW leaning site The Hill. I guess maybe 2008 will have to be the disaster it could have been, before this country disposes of the nuttery in government, or maybe not.
Red Eye Robot November 12th, 2014 at 19:45
Make no mistake, Gruber was talking about you guys. Democrats had to be told a whole pack of lies to to go along with obamacare. the $2500 savings, The mandate being a tax etc. The people who passed this law have nothing but contempt for you. They think you are stupid and don’t deserve the common decency of honesty. And sadly YOU PROVED THEM CORRECT.
StoneyCurtisll November 12th, 2014 at 20:00
Guess you didn’t read the whole article..
And it shows.. The only ‘stupid” one commenting here is you.
Suzanne McFly November 12th, 2014 at 20:09
Stoney, that is not nice. I prefer special, not stupid lol
FNLED November 12th, 2014 at 20:42
The next enrollment period starts in three days.
You covered?
Tommy6860 November 12th, 2014 at 20:45
And as of right now a third video has emerged. Of course it’s reported by the RW leaning site The Hill. I guess maybe 2008 will have to be the disaster it could have been, before this country disposes of the nuttery in government, or maybe not.
Red Eye Robot November 12th, 2014 at 20:45
Make no mistake, Gruber was talking about you guys. Democrats had to be told a whole pack of lies to to go along with obamacare. the $2500 savings, The mandate being a tax etc. The people who passed this law have nothing but contempt for you. They think you are stupid and don’t deserve the common decency of honesty. And sadly YOU PROVED THEM CORRECT.
StoneyCurtisll November 12th, 2014 at 21:00
Guess you didn’t read the whole article..
And it shows.. The only ‘stupid” one commenting here is you.
Suzanne McFly November 12th, 2014 at 21:09
Stoney, that is not nice. I prefer special, not stupid lol
FNLED November 12th, 2014 at 21:42
The next enrollment period starts in three days.
You covered?
Red Eye Robot November 12th, 2014 at 19:58
Nobody demonstrated Gruber’s “stupid voters” and the sheer gullibility of Democrat voters than this
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 20:12
As I stated above, you guys don’t seem to know what it is that he even said.
As for Nancy Pelosi;
What she actually ACTUALLY said was; “ ”But we have to
pass the bill so that YOU can find out what is in it, away from the fog of
controversy.”
By “fog of controversy”, she meant lies
She was absolutely right;
In the most recent Kaiser poll;
The poll finds that fewer than four in ten Americans (37 percent) are
aware that people who got new health insurance under the ACA had a choice
between private health plans, while about a quarter (26 percent) think the
newly insured were enrolled in a single government plan and about four in
ten (38 percent) say they don’t know enough to answer the question.
53 percent who say they saw any political ads about the law
in the past month, more than twice as many say the ads they saw were mostly in
opposition to the law rather than mostly in support of it (19 percent versus 7
percent).
And….”To date, most
Americans have been personally unaffected by the new health care law,”
said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.From Kaiser; most Americans
continue to report no personal experience with the law to date. Add that
to; Most people get info from least trusted sources.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2019aff4d1b37970d-pi
But why let facts get in the way?
fancypants November 12th, 2014 at 21:15
what has to stop is the bullshit of our elected not reading the material before its passed. This goes for the patriot act,NAFTA too. All three turned out to be a train wreck that has made the the tax payer pay dearly.
Yet our gov does it over and over again as if they do what they want
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 21:17
what has to stop is the bullshit of our elected not reading the material before its passed. T
_______
They never have.
That is what their staff is for.
fancypants November 12th, 2014 at 21:27
I disagree the staff is there for any possible debate and it doesn’t absolve any elected for reading these bills themselves before voting on it
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 23:21
I agree, the people voting should be the people reading/understanding. Staff is there for research.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 20:11
If that’s indeed true ? our elected are 0 for 3 because they claim to be surprised and disappointed when the law(s) take effect
Spirit of America November 14th, 2014 at 21:24
I don’t know about ‘true’ as in being 2+2=4 type of true, but I sure do believe they should read the stuff.
Not sure I follow the ‘0-3′ part though… do you mean there are 3 specific laws that some(congressmen/senators) went “oh my gosh didn’t know that was in there’ type of claims?
mea_mark November 13th, 2014 at 11:17
The staff is there to read the bills and point out the things that are important in the bill that need to be addressed. Some of those bills are just to big, delegating the work load is essential.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 20:07
As I said above It doesn’t absolve our elected from reading these laws no matter how long it takes. Yes its helpful that the staff is also reading them
mea_mark November 14th, 2014 at 20:47
Some of those bills are just to long and full of stuff that doesn’t need to be read, just legal jargon. Try reading some bills and you will see why the staff do it and just point out the things that need to be pointed out. I for one don’t want my rep (if he was an intelligent person) spending so much time reading stuff that is not important in the least. Since my rep is a right-wing partisan hack though I wish that is all he did, It would be like eternal confusion and torture for him. Texas has it’s drawbacks.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 21:13
If they cant read it ? No vote should be cast. Real simple comparison here…most if not all citizens wouldn’t buy a house if they didn’t read the contract Because if you did, once the house payment is due Your still responsible for signing the deed. At the end of the day if our elected passes a law ( by majority ) those who voted yes are responsible for its content Unfortunately those who did not vote yes will also go down with the ship.
mea_mark November 14th, 2014 at 21:17
Spend a couple days reading a lengthy bill. If you still think that after reading one let me know. I did and I understand why.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 21:29
since reading bills IS part of their job title I would be more than happy to reduce their salary for excusing themselves from such burdens. I think this is what needs to be done by executive order
StoneyCurtisll November 12th, 2014 at 20:22
Simple reality check for the simple minded…( Red Eye Robot )
No one knows what is actually in a bill until all amendments are added and it is passed and sighed into law..
Even a middle school student knows this…
I almost feel sorry for you not knowing this..
You seem as uneducated as a student in elementary school on political matters.
StoneyCurtisll November 12th, 2014 at 20:25
You seem to confused as to what a “bill” is and what a “law” is…
I am not surprised you do not know the difference.
Red Eye Robot November 12th, 2014 at 20:58
Nobody demonstrated Gruber’s “stupid voters” and the sheer gullibility of Democrat voters than this
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 21:12
As I stated above, you guys don’t seem to know what it is that he even said.
As for Nancy Pelosi;
What she actually ACTUALLY said was; “ ”But we have to
pass the bill so that YOU can find out what is in it, away from the fog of
controversy.”
By “fog of controversy”, she meant lies
She was absolutely right;
In the most recent Kaiser poll;
The poll finds that fewer than four in ten Americans (37 percent) are
aware that people who got new health insurance under the ACA had a choice
between private health plans, while about a quarter (26 percent) think the
newly insured were enrolled in a single government plan and about four in
ten (38 percent) say they don’t know enough to answer the question.
53 percent who say they saw any political ads about the law
in the past month, more than twice as many say the ads they saw were mostly in
opposition to the law rather than mostly in support of it (19 percent versus 7
percent).
And….”To date, most
Americans have been personally unaffected by the new health care law,”
said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.From Kaiser; most Americans
continue to report no personal experience with the law to date. Add that
to; Most people get info from least trusted sources.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2019aff4d1b37970d-pi
But why let facts get in the way?
fancypants November 12th, 2014 at 22:15
what has to stop is the bullshit of our elected not reading the material before its passed. This goes for the patriot act,NAFTA too. All three turned out to be a train wreck that has made the the tax payer pay dearly.
Yet our gov does it over and over again as if they do what they want
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 22:17
what has to stop is the bullshit of our elected not reading the material before its passed. T
_______
They never have.
That is what their staff is for.
fancypants November 12th, 2014 at 22:27
I disagree the staff is there for any possible debate and it doesn’t absolve any elected for reading these bills themselves before voting on it
Spirit of America November 13th, 2014 at 00:21
I agree, the people voting should be the people reading/understanding. Staff is there for research.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 21:11
If that’s indeed true ? our elected are 0 for 3 because they claim to be surprised and disappointed when the law(s) take effect
Spirit of America November 14th, 2014 at 22:24
I don’t know about ‘true’ as in being 2+2=4 type of true, but I sure do believe they should read the stuff.
Not sure I follow the ‘0-3′ part though… do you mean there are 3 specific laws that some(congressmen/senators) went “oh my gosh didn’t know that was in there’ type of claims?
mea_mark November 13th, 2014 at 12:17
The staff is there to read the bills and point out the things that are important in the bill that need to be addressed. Some of those bills are just to big, delegating the work load is essential.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 21:07
As I said above It doesn’t absolve our elected from reading these laws no matter how long it takes. Yes its helpful that the staff is also reading them
mea_mark November 14th, 2014 at 21:47
Some of those bills are just to long and full of stuff that doesn’t need to be read, just legal jargon. Try reading some bills and you will see why the staff do it and just point out the things that need to be pointed out. I for one don’t want my rep (if he was an intelligent person) spending so much time reading stuff that is not important in the least. Since my rep is a right-wing partisan hack though I wish that is all he did, It would be like eternal confusion and torture for him. Texas has it’s drawbacks.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 22:13
If they cant read it ? No vote should be cast. Real simple comparison here…most if not all citizens wouldn’t buy a house if they didn’t read the contract Because if you did, once the house payment is due Your still responsible for signing the deed. At the end of the day if our elected passes a law ( by majority ) those who voted yes are responsible for its content Unfortunately those who did not vote yes will also go down with the ship.
mea_mark November 14th, 2014 at 22:17
Spend a couple days reading a lengthy bill. If you still think that after reading one let me know. I did and I understand why.
fancypants November 14th, 2014 at 22:29
since reading bills IS part of their job title I would be more than happy to reduce their salary for excusing themselves from such burdens. I think this is what needs to be done by executive order
StoneyCurtisll November 12th, 2014 at 21:22
Simple reality check for the simple minded…( Red Eye Robot )
No one knows what is actually in a bill until all amendments are added and it is passed and sighed into law..
Even a middle school student knows this…
I almost feel sorry for you not knowing this..
You seem as uneducated as a student in elementary school on political matters.
StoneyCurtisll November 12th, 2014 at 21:25
You seem to confused as to what a “bill” is and what a “law” is…
I am not surprised you do not know the difference.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 20:03
Post all 3 tapes(so far) of this guy, then claim if this weeny elitist is a hero or villian. And it is not just him saying american voters are stupid, but it is also bragging about how they lied and mislead people.
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 20:10
This is nothing. Another manufactured outrage for the base.
I have attended academic, conferences like this where doctors have referred to stupid patients who refuse to follow recommendation, and how little interest they have in their condition, and how to motivate them.
Actually, this guy is right, but no one who is complaining about him seems to know what he said.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 20:12
It is to me, and many others. I don’t think the american people are stupid, I don’t think this country would be where it is at if they were.
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 20:21
Do you actually know what he is talking about?
Did you follow the Medicare Part D passage?
(clearly they thought the people were stupid.)
To this day, the public has no idea what is in the law.
From below;
In the most recent Kaiser poll;
The poll finds that fewer than four in ten Americans (37 percent) are
aware that people who got new health insurance under the ACA had a choice
between private health plans, while about a quarter (26 percent) think the
newly insured were enrolled in a single government plan and about four in
ten (38 percent) say they don’t know enough to answer the question.
53 percent who say they saw any political ads about the law
in the past month, more than twice as many say the ads they saw were mostly in
opposition to the law rather than mostly in support of it (19 percent versus 7
percent).
And….”To date, most
Americans have been personally unaffected by the new health care law,”
said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.From Kaiser; most Americans
continue to report no personal experience with the law to date. Add that
to; Most people get info from least trusted sources.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com…
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 20:41
google
“jonathan gruber video”
all 3 get listed
Why bring in plan d, not the topic. and why focus only(not addressing) the misleading aspect, not just the ‘americans are stupid’ part.
Quick question:
do you believe the american voters are stupid?
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 20:51
Because, they clearly assumed that the voters “were stupid”, else why threaten Medicare actuary Richard Foster if he went public with the full cost?
And the passage of Medicare Part D is actually EVERYTHING the right claims the ACA is.
I believe the American voters are woefully ill and misinformed.
What do you call it when people love the ACA and Kynect and hate “Obamacare”?
Remember the GOP “visceral givers” did they think THEY were stupid?
How about the GOP and the “low information Obama” voters?
He is basically saying; “Instead of taxing individual employees’ health plans, a staffer for then-Senator John Kerry suggested taxing the companies instead:“We said ‘Well, that’s pretty much the same thing, why does it matter?’ He said ‘You’ll see!’ And they proposed it, and that passed”
What do YOU call it?
I call it ill informed and disinterested.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:28
But you see, I ‘rant’ about the gop when they play that game as well. Just like I defended when POTUS did that ‘you didn’t build that’, I spent hours on many sites reprimanding people because they took it out of context. To me it is not about sides, it’s about right and wrong.
“Ill informed and disinterested”. To THAT I agree, which is a far cry from being stupid.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 21:25
why did you not know that the poor would be subsidized, did you and the teas not read the bill and rely on a pundit like hannity or rush to tell you what the law said?
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:34
How in the world would I know what teas would or wouldn’t read? He||, i didn’t even know tea could read.
And I don’t listen to hannity or rush, so I can’t rely on that for anything.
Would you quit making things up and discuss like a mature adult?
Now, if you would like to address the topic in a friendly honest manner, I’ll be more than happy to respond to any questions.
Do you think the american people are stupid?
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 21:35
why did you not know that the poor would be subsidized and that ingnorant rwnj would go full speed into denying Americans HC
ChrisVosburg November 13th, 2014 at 00:33
Stupidity, like intelligence, is a subjective opinion, as is whether or not you are an asshole.
DBAA.
Spirit of America November 13th, 2014 at 04:38
Now that’s weird, I took your advice decades before I met you!
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 21:24
Of course many are…baggers, birthers are proof.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:36
Oh sure, there are some subsets that are, and it is all opinion as to who those subsets are, but he didn’t qualitfy by using a subset, he called you stupid.(you are american, right?)
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 21:40
Americans are stupid, many many are. hell, palin was loved by the right
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:47
Ahhh, so you are the one who gets to determine liking this person or that makes one stupid or not.. been looking for you for a long time…
:)
But, how do you like gruber feeling the same way and calling you stupid? You come across as several things, but I don’t think you come across as stupid.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:51
that is a given concerning palin. she is a liar, grifter, low life and worse.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 23:11
Ok, to each their opinion, but how do you feel about gruber calling you stupid?
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 23:23
Tracy, i guess it is safe to say that you never met a Conservative, Tea-party person, or Republican that you DIDNT HATE?! Do you EVER Say anything nice….and if not, did you have a mother and or father that taught you some manners …. because mine said “if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all” But I guess for you “LIBERALS” its OK TO HATE as long as its RIGHT WINGERS.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 23:30
you would be correct, your kind are nothing more then racist haters. so stick that where the sun does not shine old teabagger troll
tiredoftea November 12th, 2014 at 23:32
You sure seem to be ignoring mom’s advice, here.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 21:23
teabaggers are stupid, they can not even understand what he said, why he said it and that he thinks it is flawed but necessary.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:03
Post all 3 tapes(so far) of this guy, then claim if this weeny elitist is a hero or villian. And it is not just him saying american voters are stupid, but it is also bragging about how they lied and mislead people.
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 21:10
This is nothing. Another manufactured outrage for the base.
I have attended academic, conferences like this where doctors have referred to stupid patients who refuse to follow recommendation, and how little interest they have in their condition, and how to motivate them.
Actually, this guy is right, but no one who is complaining about him seems to know what he said.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:12
It is to me, and many others. I don’t think the american people are stupid, I don’t think this country would be where it is at if they were.
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 21:21
Do you actually know what he is talking about?
Did you follow the Medicare Part D passage?
(clearly they thought the people were stupid.)
To this day, the public has no idea what is in the law.
From below;
In the most recent Kaiser poll;
The poll finds that fewer than four in ten Americans (37 percent) are
aware that people who got new health insurance under the ACA had a choice
between private health plans, while about a quarter (26 percent) think the
newly insured were enrolled in a single government plan and about four in
ten (38 percent) say they don’t know enough to answer the question.
53 percent who say they saw any political ads about the law
in the past month, more than twice as many say the ads they saw were mostly in
opposition to the law rather than mostly in support of it (19 percent versus 7
percent).
And….”To date, most
Americans have been personally unaffected by the new health care law,”
said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.From Kaiser; most Americans
continue to report no personal experience with the law to date. Add that
to; Most people get info from least trusted sources.
http://miamiherald.typepad.com…
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:41
google
“jonathan gruber video”
all 3 get listed
Why bring in plan d, not the topic. and why focus only(not addressing) the misleading aspect, not just the ‘americans are stupid’ part.
Quick question:
do you believe the american voters are stupid?
OldLefty November 12th, 2014 at 21:51
Because, they clearly assumed that the voters “were stupid”, else why threaten Medicare actuary Richard Foster if he went public with the full cost?
And the passage of Medicare Part D is actually EVERYTHING the right claims the ACA is.
I believe the American voters are woefully ill and misinformed.
What do you call it when people love the ACA and Kynect and hate “Obamacare”?
Remember the GOP “visceral givers” did they think THEY were stupid?
How about the GOP and the “low information Obama” voters?
He is basically saying; “Instead of taxing individual employees’ health plans, a staffer for then-Senator John Kerry suggested taxing the companies instead:“We said ‘Well, that’s pretty much the same thing, why does it matter?’ He said ‘You’ll see!’ And they proposed it, and that passed”
What do YOU call it?
I call it ill informed and disinterested.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 22:28
But you see, I ‘rant’ about the gop when they play that game as well. Just like I defended when POTUS did that ‘you didn’t build that’, I spent hours on many sites reprimanding people because they took it out of context. To me it is not about sides, it’s about right and wrong.
“Ill informed and disinterested”. To THAT I agree, which is a far cry from being stupid.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:25
why did you not know that the poor would be subsidized, did you and the teas not read the bill and rely on a pundit like hannity or rush to tell you what the law said?
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 22:34
How in the world would I know what teas would or wouldn’t read? He||, i didn’t even know tea could read.
And I don’t listen to hannity or rush, so I can’t rely on that for anything.
Would you quit making things up and discuss like a mature adult?
Now, if you would like to address the topic in a friendly honest manner, I’ll be more than happy to respond to any questions.
Do you think the american people are stupid?
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:35
why did you not know that the poor would be subsidized and that ingnorant rwnj would go full speed into denying Americans HC
ChrisVosburg November 13th, 2014 at 01:33
Stupidity, like intelligence, is a subjective opinion, as is whether or not you are an asshole.
DBAA.
Spirit of America November 13th, 2014 at 05:38
Now that’s weird, I took your advice decades before I met you!
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:24
Of course many are…baggers, birthers are proof.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 22:36
Oh sure, there are some subsets that are, and it is all opinion as to who those subsets are, but he didn’t qualitfy by using a subset, he called you stupid.(you are american, right?)
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:40
Americans are stupid, many many are. hell, palin was loved by the right
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 22:47
Ahhh, so you are the one who gets to determine liking this person or that makes one stupid or not.. been looking for you for a long time…
:)
But, how do you like gruber feeling the same way and calling you stupid? You come across as several things, but I don’t think you come across as stupid.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 23:51
that is a given concerning palin. she is a liar, grifter, low life and worse.
Spirit of America November 13th, 2014 at 00:11
Ok, to each their opinion, but how do you feel about gruber calling you stupid?
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 13th, 2014 at 00:23
Tracy, i guess it is safe to say that you never met a Conservative, Tea-party person, or Republican that you DIDNT HATE?! Do you EVER Say anything nice….and if not, did you have a mother and or father that taught you some manners …. because mine said “if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all” But I guess for you “LIBERALS” its OK TO HATE as long as its RIGHT WINGERS.
tiredoftea November 13th, 2014 at 00:32
You sure seem to be ignoring mom’s advice, here.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:23
teabaggers are stupid, they can not even understand what he said, why he said it and that he thinks it is flawed but necessary.
Obewon November 12th, 2014 at 20:23
“Jesus is a White guy too!”-Megyn Kelly later admitted ‘I just found out Jesus may not be a white guy.’ Fox heads exploded!
Tuesday, November 11 , 2014 FOXN Total Day Age 25-54 Ad Demo (242,000) P2+ Viewers 2 years old! And above (1,306 242) http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/11/12/cable-news-ratings-for-tuesday-november-11-2014/326681/
Obewon November 12th, 2014 at 21:01
Funnier are the 28 million HC.gov and state exchange HC insurance buyers saving money via 50% less expensive NY HC premiums without subsidies and with better benefits!
Obewon November 12th, 2014 at 22:01
Voters also include the 28 million HC.gov and state exchange HC insurance buyers saving money with -50% to -70% premium reductions. In 2014 NY HC premiums fell from $1,000 per month+ to $312 per month without any subsidies, and with better benefits including no preexisting exclusions, or lifetime care caps! http://ACAsignups.net/
How many voters know the ACA was fully paid for upon signing 3/23/2010, reducing federal budget deficits $1.5 trillion+? Now there’s proof of stupidly uninformed voters!
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 21:44
You people…you Liberals…you unbelievable hypocrites…make
me sick…Sick to call you my countrymen and sick to know that I fought for your rights
to speak what you want, lie how you want, say what you want, and, frankly, live
in this country by my side. For once,
just once, I wish you would be honest and truthful and ANSWER THE QUESTIONS….JUST ONCE! Just once i wish you would address the issues. instead
of spread the BULLS__T you spread. But
you don’t have the spine, the courage or the backbone to be honest. You just keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 21:52
Besides being overtly friendly ( /s), what question would you like answered truthfully in this thread… you forgot to ask one :)
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 22:10
SoA, The list of questions is long…and many have already asked them. However, so you can see that I am truly trying to understand if OBAMACARE is MORE POSITIVE than negative I have tried to look at all points, all issues, and all the Pros and the Cons. Now I am not even close to understanding it all, but with my ‘first-look’ I was shocked by the obvious issues I just couldn’t understand or explain …. Here is one very very basic question: Why would you make it ILLEGAL for employers to provide healthcare coverage to part-time employees??? Why in Gods Name would you do that?
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:50
lie
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 23:31
Saying that “teabaggers are stupid” is a totally legit statement…but stating that the ACA has caused good people….hardworking people…who DONT MAKE A LOT OF MONEY….to lose their healthcare is a lie???? HHmmmm that is really a interesting statement! I admitted to ARC99 that the ACA DOESNT make it illegal to for employers to provide part time employees healthcare…it just makes it too darn expensive! and to that end you need to read the following new article: http://kaiserhealthnews.org/morning-breakout/walmart-cuts-benefits/
It also states that Home Depot, Target have done the same…as has JetBlue and many Small businesses. So why dont you come up with some snide, snippy retort to shoot back at me to explain that! And more importantly, explain it to those poor folks who lost their coverage!
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 22:59
Holy cow, I leave for a little bit and see a whole bunch of reading to do from you…:)
As for your question here, could you point me to the section of law that says that? I have it in pdf format, so a page area would suffice. I do not recall what you’re saying in its body text.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 22:50
sounds like it is time for you to hitch your trailer to your beater truck and leave my country.
tiredoftea November 12th, 2014 at 23:29
Didn’t you used to be a plumber?
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 23:33
Very articulate and intelligent comeback! WOW…Its amazing. How quickly ‘YOU PEOPLE’ turn to just being hatefully and mean and nasty and rude. Im looking for an honest debate. But if you want to name call…please…find someone else.
tiredoftea November 12th, 2014 at 23:35
No, sorry. You don’t want a “debate”. You want what you are getting. Go back to wnd and blaze and report your findings.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 23:40
This thread is getting so confused I had to read your post a few times before I got the reference. :)
(what is wnd?)
tiredoftea November 13th, 2014 at 00:12
worldnetdaily. One of the favorite fringe sites.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 22:44
You people…you Liberals…you unbelievable hypocrites…make
me sick…Sick to call you my countrymen and sick to know that I fought for your rights
to speak what you want, lie how you want, say what you want, and, frankly, live
in this country by my side. For once,
just once, I wish you would be honest and truthful and ANSWER THE QUESTIONS….JUST ONCE! Just once i wish you would address the issues. instead
of spread the BULLS__T you spread. But
you don’t have the spine, the courage or the backbone to be honest. You just keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 22:52
Besides being overtly friendly ( /s), what question would you like answered truthfully in this thread… you forgot to ask one :)
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 23:10
SoA, The list of questions is long…and many have already asked them. However, so you can see that I am truly trying to understand if OBAMACARE is MORE POSITIVE than negative I have tried to look at all points, all issues, and all the Pros and the Cons. Now I am not even close to understanding it all, but with my ‘first-look’ I was shocked by the obvious issues I just couldn’t understand or explain …. Here is one very very basic question: Why would you make it ILLEGAL for employers to provide healthcare coverage to part-time employees??? Why in Gods Name would you do that?
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 23:50
lie
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 13th, 2014 at 00:31
Saying that “teabaggers are stupid” is a totally legit statement…but stating that the ACA has caused good people….hardworking people…who DONT MAKE A LOT OF MONEY….to lose their healthcare is a lie???? HHmmmm that is really a interesting statement! I admitted to ARC99 that the ACA DOESNT make it illegal to for employers to provide part time employees healthcare…it just makes it too darn expensive! and to that end you need to read the following new article: http://kaiserhealthnews.org/morning-breakout/walmart-cuts-benefits/
It also states that Home Depot, Target have done the same…as has JetBlue and many Small businesses. So why dont you come up with some snide, snippy retort to shoot back at me to explain that! And more importantly, explain it to those poor folks who lost their coverage!
Spirit of America November 12th, 2014 at 23:59
Holy cow, I leave for a little bit and see a whole bunch of reading to do from you…:)
As for your question here, could you point me to the section of law that says that? I have it in pdf format, so a page area would suffice. I do not recall what you’re saying in its body text.
tracey marie November 12th, 2014 at 23:50
sounds like it is time for you to hitch your trailer to your beater truck and leave my country.
tiredoftea November 13th, 2014 at 00:29
Didn’t you used to be a plumber?
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 13th, 2014 at 00:33
Very articulate and intelligent comeback! WOW…Its amazing. How quickly ‘YOU PEOPLE’ turn to just being hatefully and mean and nasty and rude. Im looking for an honest debate. But if you want to name call…please…find someone else.
tiredoftea November 13th, 2014 at 00:35
No, sorry. You don’t want a “debate”. You want what you are getting. Go back to wnd and blaze and report your findings.
Spirit of America November 13th, 2014 at 00:40
This thread is getting so confused I had to read your post a few times before I got the reference. :)
(what is wnd?)
tiredoftea November 13th, 2014 at 01:12
worldnetdaily. One of the favorite fringe sites.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 21:55
I Just heard ‘Mr Colmes’ elude to the same ‘LIES’ that many liberals keep spreading…the lies that there are now ‘7 million people who didnt have healthcare, with healthcare coverage!’ OMG…REALLY???? And the VERY Articulate woman below, Ms Tracey Marie, boy she is really the poster child for the wonderfully accepting, open-armed, totally open-minded, willing-to-listen-to-all-points-of-view LIBERALS. So I bet she is OK with Gays, stands up for Minority rights, fights for women in the workplace…but if you are a Tea Party member…well…OMG…YOU ARE A Second class citizen! According to this wonderfully kind-heated non confrontational Liberal, they are ALL STUPID TEA-BAGGERS! Ma’am, you are truly amazing and a real asset to your party and you organization.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 22:55
I Just heard ‘Mr Colmes’ elude to the same ‘LIES’ that many liberals keep spreading…the lies that there are now ‘7 million people who didnt have healthcare, with healthcare coverage!’ OMG…REALLY???? And the VERY Articulate woman below, Ms Tracey Marie, boy she is really the poster child for the wonderfully accepting, open-armed, totally open-minded, willing-to-listen-to-all-points-of-view LIBERALS. So I bet she is OK with Gays, stands up for Minority rights, fights for women in the workplace…but if you are a Tea Party member…well…OMG…YOU ARE A Second class citizen! According to this wonderfully kind-hearted non confrontational Liberal, they are ALL STUPID TEA-BAGGERS! Ma’am, you are truly amazing and a real asset to your party and your organization.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 22:02
Some think I have not asked any questions…and no, I have not yet, but it is only because I have heard these same questions asked over and over with just the same OLD rhetoric as a reply. and the posts in this thread continue to prove my point so much so that I had to begin by pointing out a few things. But now lets get down to those very questions that no one will answer: 1. According the stats pushed by the Democrats, there were 40M people without healthcare. One of the major reasons for push…no …JAMMING OBAMACARE down the American public’s throat was to ensure that this subset of the population would be covered. So, how do you cover 40M people who currently cant afford or don’t have healthcare without it costing anyone else any more money?
arc99 November 12th, 2014 at 23:00
educate yourself
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45447
In response to the request for an estimate of the net impact on the deficit of the ACA, the following points are important:
Based on revisions to the estimated budgetary effects of aspects of the ACA that CBO and JCT have analyzed, the agencies have no reason to think that their initial assessment that the ACA would reduce budget deficits was incorrect.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 23:07
Arc99…So, you now want me to BELIEVE that rhetoric coming from the same academics and government orgs that just admitted they LIED to us and mislead us to ensure that we didnt know exactly how these new policies would affect us? REALLY? I dont need useless facts quoted from government websites that are spinning the facts. Have you actually PAID a healthcare premium? Have you had a business that has had to bear the costs of the NEW OBAMACARE….have YOU? I have. My company is based in Virginia. We had a very good healthcare plan from Care First. We had 22 people on staff at the time OBMACARE premiums took affect. They went up 65% for us! 65% Do you know what that is in dollars and cents? For the average family? I DO! But since you have all the useless fact…why dont you tell me why this happened and what the impact was to the employees of my company and the company itself?
arc99 November 12th, 2014 at 23:25
fine.. choose not to believe my references.
I choose not to believe a single word you say.
If your costs increased why not ask your insurance company about their practices. I am not going to play your silly game of presuming to answer questions about situations that involve other people and companies.
Sounds to me like you need to do a better job of looking for health insurance. Go and ask Care First why they raised rates when their competitors in the same market, lowered theirs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/carefirst-proposes-hefty-rate-increases-kaiser-cuts-rates-for-individual-health-plans/2014/06/06/b4b62cca-edac-11e3-b84b-3393a45b80f1_story.html
Maryland’s dominant insurance company, CareFirst, is proposing hefty premium increases of 23 to 30 percent for consumers buying individual plans next year under the federal health-care law, according to filings released Friday.
The rate proposals by CareFirst and several other carriers were posted on the Web site of the Maryland Insurance Administration and paint a mixed picture. Two other insurers, Kaiser Foundation Health Plan and Evergreen Health Cooperative, are proposing to lower rates for next year, by 12 percent and about 10 percent, respectively.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 23:41
My friend…I believe that MR GRUBER can answer your question about why Health Insurance providers are charging more….the ACA hit the Insurance companies with fees and cost increases….those were passed on to the Consumers. Yes, you are right, I have to believe WHAT IS IN FRONT OF ME! THIS LAW was supposed to HELP PEOPLE! It only seems to be helping those that had NO INSURANCE! You are quoting the LETTER OF THE LAW….and while I commend you for that, you need to start looking at the SPIRIT of the law and what it has done to many many people who had healthcare. The laws are STATE by STATE. In VA. where my company is based, OBAMACARE has us paying the first 3000 dollars. Period. over and above our healthcare payments. It is only after the 1st 3000 that our insurance kicks in. And, as YOU so nicely pointed out, the ACA has DONE NOTHING to stop healthcare companies from dramatically increasing costs! Can you find me 1 or 2 companies that have LOWERED COSTS of insurance? I would welcome the data!
Margie Bateman Osgood November 13th, 2014 at 00:27
Joe, i am in Virginia, so you know why yours went up? We didn’t expand Medicaid, there are no subsidies, therefore, MORE people are without insurance than when the ACA was put into place. If there were more people paying into the pot, the price would go down, but there are less. Figure it out. I was excited about being able to pay for insurance for the first time in years, to pay my own way and get away from Charity Care and letting you pay for my healthcare. But I was denied that, as well as shots that could help me not see a knee replacement in my near future, and to be able to see a Rheumatologist every few months again for my chronic illness so you don’t have to pay for me the next time I go to the hospital. As it stands, you help pay for every uninsured patient that needs emergency care and has NO insurance through your taxes. THAT is what makes costs go up……..
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 12th, 2014 at 23:02
Some think I have not asked any questions…and no, I have not yet, but it is only because I have heard these same questions asked over and over with just the same OLD rhetoric as a reply. and the posts in this thread continue to prove my point so much so that I had to begin by pointing out a few things. But now lets get down to those very questions that no one will answer: 1. According the stats pushed by the Democrats, there were 40M people without healthcare. One of the major reasons for push…no …JAMMING OBAMACARE down the American public’s throat was to ensure that this subset of the population would be covered. So, how do you cover 40M people who currently cant afford or don’t have healthcare without it costing anyone else any more money?
arc99 November 13th, 2014 at 00:00
educate yourself
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45447
In response to the request for an estimate of the net impact on the deficit of the ACA, the following points are important:
Based on revisions to the estimated budgetary effects of aspects of the ACA that CBO and JCT have analyzed, the agencies have no reason to think that their initial assessment that the ACA would reduce budget deficits was incorrect.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 13th, 2014 at 00:07
Arc99…So, you now want me to BELIEVE that rhetoric coming from the same academics and government orgs that just admitted they LIED to us and mislead us to ensure that we didnt know exactly how these new policies would affect us? REALLY? I dont need useless facts quoted from government websites that are spinning the facts. Have you actually PAID a healthcare premium? Have you had a business that has had to bear the costs of the NEW OBAMACARE….have YOU? I have. My company is based in Virginia. We had a very good healthcare plan from Care First. We had 22 people on staff at the time OBMACARE premiums took affect. They went up 65% for us! 65% Do you know what that is in dollars and cents? For the average family? I DO! But since you have all the useless fact…why dont you tell me why this happened and what the impact was to the employees of my company and the company itself?
arc99 November 13th, 2014 at 00:25
fine.. choose not to believe my references.
I choose not to believe a single word you say.
If your costs increased why not ask your insurance company about their practices. I am not going to play your silly game of presuming to answer questions about situations that involve other people and companies.
Sounds to me like you need to do a better job of looking for health insurance. Go and ask Care First why they raised rates when their competitors in the same market, lowered theirs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/carefirst-proposes-hefty-rate-increases-kaiser-cuts-rates-for-individual-health-plans/2014/06/06/b4b62cca-edac-11e3-b84b-3393a45b80f1_story.html
Maryland’s dominant insurance company, CareFirst, is proposing hefty premium increases of 23 to 30 percent for consumers buying individual plans next year under the federal health-care law, according to filings released Friday.
The rate proposals by CareFirst and several other carriers were posted on the Web site of the Maryland Insurance Administration and paint a mixed picture. Two other insurers, Kaiser Foundation Health Plan and Evergreen Health Cooperative, are proposing to lower rates for next year, by 12 percent and about 10 percent, respectively.
JoeTheConstitutionalist November 13th, 2014 at 00:41
My friend…I believe that MR GRUBER can answer your question about why Health Insurance providers are charging more….the ACA hit the Insurance companies with fees and cost increases….those were passed on to the Consumers. Yes, you are right, I have to believe WHAT IS IN FRONT OF ME! THIS LAW was supposed to HELP PEOPLE! It only seems to be helping those that had NO INSURANCE! You are quoting the LETTER OF THE LAW….and while I commend you for that, you need to start looking at the SPIRIT of the law and what it has done to many many people who had healthcare. The laws are STATE by STATE. In VA. where my company is based, OBAMACARE has us paying the first 3000 dollars. Period. over and above our healthcare payments. It is only after the 1st 3000 that our insurance kicks in. And, as YOU so nicely pointed out, the ACA has DONE NOTHING to stop healthcare companies from dramatically increasing costs! Can you find me 1 or 2 companies that have LOWERED COSTS of insurance? I would welcome the data!
Margie Bateman Osgood November 13th, 2014 at 01:27
Joe, i am in Virginia, so you know why yours went up? We didn’t expand Medicaid, there are no subsidies, therefore, MORE people are without insurance than when the ACA was put into place. If there were more people paying into the pot, the price would go down, but there are less. Figure it out. I was excited about being able to pay for insurance for the first time in years, to pay my own way and get away from Charity Care and letting you pay for my healthcare. But I was denied that, as well as shots that could help me not see a knee replacement in my near future, and to be able to see a Rheumatologist every few months again for my chronic illness so you don’t have to pay for me the next time I go to the hospital. As it stands, you help pay for every uninsured patient that needs emergency care and has NO insurance through your taxes. THAT is what makes costs go up……..