Bill Maher And Sam Harris Were Right About One Thing: Many Liberals Are Hypocrites On Religion
You can probably guess who said what.
Obviously, Maher was as stridently anti-Muslim as he is anti-Christianity and, generally, anti-religion. Harris was a little more nuanced, suggesting that a not insignificant percentage of Muslims are made up of either jihadists or Islamists, believing in ideas such as death for anyone who leaves the religion. Harris seemed to suggest that while it shouldn’t negatively taint all Muslims, it should be a factor when evaluating the nature of the religion. On the opposite side, Affleck directly accused both Maher and Harris of being racist, while Kristof wasn’t quite that extreme but was certainly on Affleck’s side of the debate.
On one hand, it’s a huge mistake to believe that all Muslims are extremists; likewise, it’s a huge mistake to believe that all Christians are fundamentalists. On the other hand, Affleck (who was fantastic in Gone Girl, by the way) was completely off the rails in accusing both Maher’s and Harris’s views as “racist.”
Frankly, all four participants were off the rails at one point or another, but Harris had arguably the most salient point of the debate, and this is it:
Liberals have really failed on the topic of theocracy. They’ll criticize white theocracy, they’ll criticize Christians.
I like where this is headed, but the following is just stupid… CONTINUE READING
Copyright 2014 Liberaland
By: Bob Cesca
Bob Cesca is the managing editor at The Daily Banter (www.thedailybanter.com) and a Huffington Post contributor since 2005. He's worked in journalism since 1988 as a print writer/editor, a radio news anchor, a digital media columnist/editor, a book author and blogger. He's the co-host of the Bubble Genius Bob & Chez Show podcast and a Thursday regular on the syndicated Stephanie Miller Show. He's appeared on numerous other radio shows including the John Phillips Show and Geraldo Rivera Show in Los Angeles. Bob has been a commentator/analyst on the BBC (TV and radio), MSNBC, Current TV, CNN and Sky News. Following him on Twitter: @bobcesca_go
44 responses to Bill Maher And Sam Harris Were Right About One Thing: Many Liberals Are Hypocrites On Religion
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Um Cara October 6th, 2014 at 08:52
It’s certainly true in my experience on liberal forums (including this one, obviously) that many libs who rightly defend Muslims and the Islamic faith are quite comfortable saying the most vile and rude things regarding Christians and Christianity.
I suppose they see it as a way to fit in. Like all bullies they need our compassion and guidance so they can become better, (and less bitter) humans.
jasperjava October 6th, 2014 at 09:44
I will readily defend Muslims from “Christian” bigots, but I have been lax at defending Christians from Anti-christian bigots. As a Catholic, it’s one more thing for me to feel guilty about.
In my mind, I justify my cowardice with the thought that those who make blatant Anti-christian comments are among the “good guys” who oppose right-wing dominionists who want to impose their version of Sharia Law on our secular state. I make common cause with liberals of all stripes who defend the First Amendment: not just the Establishment clause, but the right of Free Exercise whereof (which includes the right NOT to believe).
linann.singh@yahoo.com October 6th, 2014 at 10:05
It’s true because christians never look in the mirror. It’s chirstains on Lib forums who always group Muslims together, that’s why Libs defend them. Your doing it too, “Like all bullies”, those are your words. Why do you call them bullies? Is it because they don’t see the world the way you want them too? I have come across a few christians who I have nice conversations with, but most just want to rant how every body is going to hell unless we think the way they do.
Um Cara October 6th, 2014 at 10:18
“Is it because they don’t see the world the way you want them too?”
No, it is because of their bullying, not because of their world view. I fully recognize and celebrate the diversity of world views held by my fellow libs.
Dwendt44 October 6th, 2014 at 12:15
It’s more the case that we criticize christians and christianity because they are the majority HERE. It’s christians that are wishing, if not trying, to turn this country into a theocracy.
OldLefty October 6th, 2014 at 15:25
I think it comes from a resistance to the ‘our voodoo is inherently good, and their voodoo is inherently evil’ meme.
Um Cara October 6th, 2014 at 08:52
It’s certainly true in my experience on liberal forums (including this one, obviously) that many libs who rightly defend Muslims and the Islamic faith are quite comfortable saying the most vile and rude things regarding Christians and Christianity.
I suppose they see it as a way to fit in. Like all bullies they need our compassion and guidance so they can become better, (and less bitter) humans.
jasperjava October 6th, 2014 at 09:44
I will readily defend Muslims from “Christian” bigots, but I have been lax at defending Christians from Anti-christian bigots. As a Catholic, it’s one more thing for me to feel guilty about.
In my mind, I justify my cowardice with the thought that those who make blatant Anti-christian comments are among the “good guys” who oppose right-wing dominionists who want to impose their version of Sharia Law on our secular state. I make common cause with liberals of all stripes who defend the First Amendment: not just the Establishment clause, but the right of Free Exercise whereof (which includes the right NOT to believe).
Linann October 6th, 2014 at 10:05
It’s true because christians never look in the mirror. It’s chirstains on Lib forums who always group Muslims together, that’s why Libs defend them. Your doing it too, “Like all bullies”, those are your words. Why do you call them bullies? Is it because they don’t see the world the way you want them too? I have come across a few christians who I have nice conversations with, but most just want to rant how every body is going to hell unless we think the way they do.
Um Cara October 6th, 2014 at 10:18
“Is it because they don’t see the world the way you want them too?”
No, it is because of their bullying, not because of their world view. I fully recognize and celebrate the diversity of world views held by my fellow libs.
Dwendt44 October 6th, 2014 at 12:15
It’s more the case that we criticize christians and christianity because they are the majority HERE. It’s christians that are wishing, if not trying, to turn this country into a theocracy.
OldLefty October 6th, 2014 at 15:25
I think it comes from a resistance to the ‘our voodoo is inherently good, and their voodoo is inherently evil’ meme.
craig7120 October 6th, 2014 at 09:02
I’ve been consistant in calling out religious kooks of all denominations. Less so of Muslims on this forum because they’re not as prevalent as those who spread their xtian piety within these walls.
craig7120 October 6th, 2014 at 09:02
I’ve been consistant in calling out religious kooks of all denominations. Less so of Muslims on this forum because they’re not as prevalent as those who spread their xtian piety within these walls.
William October 6th, 2014 at 09:10
“Many Liberals Are Hypocrites On Religion”
That is a point well taken however…..
The notion that conservatism somehow makes one more “worthy” is extremely offensive to religious liberals.
Ayn Onomous October 6th, 2014 at 14:00
Usually you have better memes, William. That image has nothing to do with conservatism. Conservatism seeks to limit the government in the first place, Republicanism tries to compromise (poorly, I might add). But, that image doesn’t even represent republicanism since that image is depicating voluntary/local charity and not federal/government enforced tax-payer dollars charity.
No one is against voluntary/local charity.
William October 6th, 2014 at 14:53
“That image has nothing to do with conservatism.”
What was your first clue?
Was it Jesus holding a cup made of a material that wouldn’t be developed for a few thousand years? Or was it the light skinned brown haired followers?
William October 6th, 2014 at 09:10
“Many Liberals Are Hypocrites On Religion”
That is a point well taken however…..
The notion that conservatism somehow makes one more “worthy” is extremely offensive to religious liberals.
Ayn Onomous October 6th, 2014 at 14:00
That image has nothing to do with conservatism. Conservatism seeks to limit the government in the first place, Republicanism tries to compromise (poorly, I might add). But, that image doesn’t even represent republicanism since that image is depicating voluntary/local charity and not federal/government enforced tax-payer dollars charity.
No one is against voluntary/local charity.
William October 6th, 2014 at 14:53
“That image has nothing to do with conservatism.”
What was your first clue?
Was it Jesus holding a cup made of a material that wouldn’t be developed for a few thousand years? Or was it the light skinned brown haired followers?
crc3 October 6th, 2014 at 10:00
“Religion” is something man created…not God (god). In my life I’ve come to realize that the one on one experience that someone has with “their G(g)od” is far more important and fulfilling. Jesus himself did not like organized religion. He taught that spirituality was much more personal and important. Additionally…non-believers have the right to not believe in any form of a personal relationship with a higher order. It’s all about choice…
Dwendt44 October 6th, 2014 at 12:12
Note also that Jesus did not want anything to do with non Jews. There are several versus where he says just that. SO, christians are all infidels still.
Tammy Minton Haley October 6th, 2014 at 19:54
that’s exactly correct, crc3…religion is man-made–it has little to do with spirituality…
crc3 October 6th, 2014 at 10:00
“Religion” is something man created…not God (god). In my life I’ve come to realize that the one on one experience that someone has with “their G(g)od” is far more important and fulfilling. Jesus himself did not like organized religion. He taught that spirituality was much more personal and important. Additionally…non-believers have the right to not believe in any form of a personal relationship with a higher order. It’s all about choice…
Dwendt44 October 6th, 2014 at 12:12
Note also that Jesus did not want anything to do with non Jews. There are several versus where he says just that. SO, christians are all infidels still.
Tammy Minton Haley October 6th, 2014 at 19:54
that’s exactly correct, crc3…religion is man-made–it has little to do with spirituality…
An American in Canada October 6th, 2014 at 11:04
Al Jazeera arab self-criticism
http://youtu.be/UdLpxmN9SRo
OldLefty October 6th, 2014 at 11:56
There is a huge practice here, (medical) with a lot of Lebanese Christians.
They all say that they like Hezbollah.
Then we see stories like;
In Hezbollah stronghold, Lebanese Christians find respect, stability
In a Christian home in a Shiite suburb of Beirut, images of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah share mantel and wall space with the Virgin Mary.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/1221/In-Hezbollah-stronghold-Lebanese-Christians-find-respect-stability
An American in Canada October 6th, 2014 at 11:04
Al Jazeera arab self-criticism
http://youtu.be/UdLpxmN9SRo
OldLefty October 6th, 2014 at 11:56
There is a huge practice here, (medical) with a lot of Lebanese Christians.
They all say that they like Hezbollah.
Then we see stories like;
In Hezbollah stronghold, Lebanese Christians find respect, stability
In a Christian home in a Shiite suburb of Beirut, images of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah share mantel and wall space with the Virgin Mary.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/1221/In-Hezbollah-stronghold-Lebanese-Christians-find-respect-stability
Carla Akins October 6th, 2014 at 11:32
Affleck was right, although I don’t know that I would have used the word racist but Maher’s and Harris’s bias was clear. On a side note, I hate it when Harris is taken as a speaker for all atheists – I am not like him and I don’t like him. It’s the same as saying all Christian’s are like Pat Robertson, the whole lumping thing is always wrong.
Bunya October 6th, 2014 at 12:04
I’ve watched Bill Maher for many years now and I’ve noticed he jokes about Christian dogma every once in a while, but he really hates Muslims.
OldLefty October 6th, 2014 at 12:05
I followed some of the Greenwald/Harris fight.
I agreed with Harris that a big difference is that the majority Christian nations are secular as opposed to religious Republics.
I always say that it is fascinating to read the Pakistani newspaper, The Dawn, and the comments, many of which come from Indian Muslims, who often say, “That’s what you get with an “Islamic Republic”
In the 1950’s, a Pakistani Muslim, Saadat Hasan Manto wrote “Letters to Uncle Sam”, warning us that we were supporting the worst of radical Islam as a hedge against “socialism” in India;
Example:
(and Yes, he is being sarcastic)
“21 February 1954
Dear Uncle,
I wrote to you only a few days ago and here I am writing again. My admiration and respect for you are going up at about the same rate as your progress towards a decision to grant military aid to Pakistan.
Regardless of India and the fuss it is making, you must sign a military pact with Pakistan. because you are seriously concerned about the stability of the world’s largest Islamic state since our mullah is the best antidote to Russian communism.
Once military aid starts flowing, the first people you should arm are these mullahs. They would also need American-made rosaries and prayer mats.
Cutthroat razors and scissors should be top of the list, as well as American hair color lotions. That should keep these fellows happy and in business.
If this gang of mullahs is armed in the American style, the Soviet Union that hawks communism and socialism in our country will have to shut shop. I can visualize the mullahs, their hair trimmed with American scissors and their pajamas stitched by American machines in strict conformity with the Sharia.
Their prayer mats would be American .
Everyone will then become your camp follower, owing allegiance to you and none else.”
That didn’t work out to well.
Carla Akins October 6th, 2014 at 11:32
Affleck was right, although I don’t know that I would have used the word racist but Maher’s and Harris’s bias was clear. On a side note, I hate it when Harris is taken as a speaker for all atheists – I am not like him and I don’t like him. It’s the same as saying all Christian’s are like Pat Robertson, the whole lumping thing is always wrong.
Bunya October 6th, 2014 at 12:04
I’ve watched Bill Maher for many years now and I’ve noticed he jokes about Christian dogma every once in a while, but he really hates Muslims.
OldLefty October 6th, 2014 at 12:05
I followed some of the Greenwald/Harris fight.
I agreed with Harris that a big difference is that the majority Christian nations are secular as opposed to religious Republics.
I always say that it is fascinating to read the Pakistani newspaper, The Dawn, and the comments, many of which come from Indian Muslims, who often say, “That’s what you get with an “Islamic Republic”
In the 1950’s, a Pakistani Muslim, Saadat Hasan Manto wrote “Letters to Uncle Sam”, warning us that we were supporting the worst of radical Islam as a hedge against “socialism” in India;
Example:
(and Yes, he is being sarcastic)
“21 February 1954
Dear Uncle,
I wrote to you only a few days ago and here I am writing again. My admiration and respect for you are going up at about the same rate as your progress towards a decision to grant military aid to Pakistan.
Regardless of India and the fuss it is making, you must sign a military pact with Pakistan. because you are seriously concerned about the stability of the world’s largest Islamic state since our mullah is the best antidote to Russian communism.
Once military aid starts flowing, the first people you should arm are these mullahs. They would also need American-made rosaries and prayer mats.
Cutthroat razors and scissors should be top of the list, as well as American hair color lotions. That should keep these fellows happy and in business.
If this gang of mullahs is armed in the American style, the Soviet Union that hawks communism and socialism in our country will have to shut shop. I can visualize the mullahs, their hair trimmed with American scissors and their pajamas stitched by American machines in strict conformity with the Sharia.
Their prayer mats would be American .
Everyone will then become your camp follower, owing allegiance to you and none else.”
That didn’t work out to well.
Abby Normal October 6th, 2014 at 11:35
Sadly, many people are far too strident about their personal belief system, whether Christian, Atheist, Muslim or whatever. It would be nice if everyone could just quietly go about their life and enjoy their own belief system without feeling a need to shout it from the highest rooftop. The same is true with politics.
Abby Normal October 6th, 2014 at 11:35
Sadly, many people are far too strident about their personal belief system, whether Christian, Atheist, Muslim or whatever. It would be nice if everyone could just quietly go about their life and enjoy their own belief system without feeling a need to shout it from the highest rooftop. The same is true with politics.
Bunya October 6th, 2014 at 11:58
I disagree. Liberals are not hypocrites on religion. We may be a little lax on criticizing other religions for their transgressions, but that’s because we’re not exposed to it on a daily basis. I’m not an expert on Islamic belief, so I can’t comment on how they treat their followers. But I was brought up in the Catholic church I’m pretty well versed on the bible and I know one thing, many less than admirable Judeo Christian beliefs are still practiced today, only under a veil of self righteousness. And besides, government laws force people to be decent.
Religion has nothing to do with it. In this country, under penalty of law, we don’t beat women, we don’t stone gays, we don’t torture non-believers, heretics or infidels. BUT … turn this country over to a theocracy and see what happens.
fancypants October 6th, 2014 at 12:04
its always amazing how countries who behead or stone women get swept under the rug during these debates as if we have a bigger problem here.
Got to love those talking heads who get paid for their political agenda
Bunya October 6th, 2014 at 11:58
I disagree. Liberals are not hypocrites on religion. We may be a little lax on criticizing other religions for their transgressions, but that’s because we’re not exposed to it on a daily basis. I’m not an expert on Islamic belief, so I can’t comment on how they treat their followers. But I was brought up in the Catholic church I’m pretty well versed on the bible and I know one thing, many less than admirable Judeo Christian beliefs are still practiced today, only under a veil of self righteousness. And besides, government laws force people to be decent.
Religion has nothing to do with it. In this country, under penalty of law, we don’t beat women, we don’t stone gays, we don’t torture non-believers, heretics or infidels. BUT … turn this country over to a theocracy and see what happens.
fancypants October 6th, 2014 at 12:04
its always amazing how countries who behead or stone women get swept under the rug during these debates as if we have a bigger problem here.
Got to love those talking heads who get paid for their political agenda
Herb Sarge Phelps October 6th, 2014 at 14:22
I was brought up in a Southern Baptist family that was extremely involved in the church. I went to a college that was Baptist and took courses that was Baptist indoctrination and was offended by how exclusive they were toward other religions and those who didn’t believe in God as well. I was so turned off that I left bitter and confused. I later joined the LDS church but eventually found them no different than the Baptist about putting their attention into areas of people’s lives they shouldn’t have.
However I also found people in both that were truly wonderful, kind, and had no problem that someone disagreed with their believes because they were so secure within themselves of their faith they didn’t feel challenged. Most extremist are insecure, or they are not willing to see themselves as anything less than the supreme authority even if they claim it to be God.
I found the Bible to be good in some ways and just horrible in others, and even conflicting in it’s message. Of course I made the mistake of questioning these things and it got me in serious trouble at the college with a promise I would have to change my views or not graduate. I left and went into the military.
I also found that the social exclusion practice of both were hard to overcome. Where the faith (Baptist in Mississippi and LDS in Arizona) were dominate they used that to gain power and would make it harder for those outside the church to be socially and economically accepted. It did cause some to give up and choose suicide or escape the area if possible. I saw people suffer from it after Katrina in some cases and some churches demanding compliance for aid. Some were not that way and did good work.
All in all it rest on the people of a faith to be able to stand up against those extremist in their church but too often just the label is enough to protect them and people who don’t agree with them will refuse to speak out or condemn them. Like government, religion can be overtaken by money or extreme views and the core members are washed away because they refuse to go against them. People like Maher make it harder for the decent ones because his attacks are from his dislike of religion and his belief he is beyond right. He hurts his own cause by his polluted position.
I tolerate religion and recognize it is both good and bad. I also hold view it all theory and nobody can give concrete evidence that a God exist or doesn’t because nobody has died and come back after days of being dead, with proof of anything concrete. I just let those who want to believe such to do so and those who don’t to do so as well, but when they get demanding and determined all will accept their belief regardless (Maher included as the extremist are in that) I have a problem with them. We should try to find a way to get along and respect each other as humans with independent choices.
Herb Sarge Phelps October 6th, 2014 at 14:22
I was brought up in a Southern Baptist family that was extremely involved in the church. I went to a college that was Baptist and took courses that was Baptist indoctrination and was offended by how exclusive they were toward other religions and those who didn’t believe in God as well. I was so turned off that I left bitter and confused. I later joined the LDS church but eventually found them no different than the Baptist about putting their attention into areas of people’s lives they shouldn’t have.
However I also found people in both that were truly wonderful, kind, and had no problem that someone disagreed with their believes because they were so secure within themselves of their faith they didn’t feel challenged. Most extremist are insecure, or they are not willing to see themselves as anything less than the supreme authority even if they claim it to be God.
I found the Bible to be good in some ways and just horrible in others, and even conflicting in it’s message. Of course I made the mistake of questioning these things and it got me in serious trouble at the college with a promise I would have to change my views or not graduate. I left and went into the military.
I also found that the social exclusion practice of both were hard to overcome. Where the faith (Baptist in Mississippi and LDS in Arizona) were dominate they used that to gain power and would make it harder for those outside the church to be socially and economically accepted. It did cause some to give up and choose suicide or escape the area if possible. I saw people suffer from it after Katrina in some cases and some churches demanding compliance for aid. Some were not that way and did good work.
All in all it rest on the people of a faith to be able to stand up against those extremist in their church but too often just the label is enough to protect them and people who don’t agree with them will refuse to speak out or condemn them. Like government, religion can be overtaken by money or extreme views and the core members are washed away because they refuse to go against them. People like Maher make it harder for the decent ones because his attacks are from his dislike of religion and his belief he is beyond right. He hurts his own cause by his polluted position.
I tolerate religion and recognize it is both good and bad. I also hold view it all theory and nobody can give concrete evidence that a God exist or doesn’t because nobody has died and come back after days of being dead, with proof of anything concrete. I just let those who want to believe such to do so and those who don’t to do so as well, but when they get demanding and determined all will accept their belief regardless (Maher included as the extremist are in that) I have a problem with them. We should try to find a way to get along and respect each other as humans with independent choices.