“This goes across all racial lines, ethnicities, religious backgrounds. People in disciplining their children. People with any sort of Christian background, they really believe in disciplining their children,” Carter began. “My mom did the best job she could do raising seven kids by herself. But there are thousands of things that I have learned since then that my mom was wrong. This is the 21st century. My mom was wrong. She did the best she could, but she was wrong about some of that stuff she taught me. And I promised my kids that I won’t teach that mess to them. You can’t beat a kid to make him do what you want to do.”
Let’s be honest: spanking is just a fancy word for hitting. The word is kind of cute. Spanking. It’s used to make the actions of the hitter seem more benign, but hitting is hitting and when there is hitting, someone is going to get hurt. That’s the objective. Behavior modification by inflicting pain.
Spanking is what parents and caretakers do to kids when they’ve lost their tempers and the only road to relief is to hit somebody. Sometimes it’s instant and spontaneous, but sometimes–this makes me shudder–it comes after a delay; a cooling-off period when the adult about to do the hitting would have time to think about it and just not do it. Then it isn’t a matter of losing control, it’s a matter of gaining control by hurting someone.
Kids get spanked or switched or whacked or smacked all the time. We brag about it, joke about it, and make excuses for it: It’s part of our history, our culture, our destiny. A good spanking never hurt anybody. Or so we would like to believe.
I have smacked a padded butt or two, pulled on a little arm, and forcibly, not gently, removed a child from a situation that was dangerous or had gotten out of hand. We parents are not perfect; nor, you might have noticed, are our children. Obedience is not something that comes naturally to them.
So because we all know that kids don’t always cooperate when it comes to guidance and discipline, and because nobody seems to know which method, if any, will work, we tend to want to stay out of other peoples’ parenting efforts.
It’s far easier to believe that spanking is okay while hitting isn’t and not recognize that the two are one and the same. Whatever you want to call it, kids are being hit by adults. Some of them are beaten, bruised and bloodied to the point where even seasoned spankers are horrified. But that’s the problem: There is no clear definition for spanking. We can use the word without really knowing what we’re talking about.
The term “child abuse” is out in the open now. That wasn’t true even 30 years ago, when the first child abuse hotlines began to appear. We’re better informed and we know abuse when we see it, but we’re still not willing to include spanking in the “abuse” category. It needs to be there. We can’t control the methods or degrees of spanking. There is no effective way to monitor spanking to make sure it doesn’t go too far. The way to control it is to make sure it doesn’t happen.
Every adult who spanks is not a child abuser, but every adult who spanks has to recognize that spanking is intended to hurt, and hurting a child, any child, is something a healthy society needs to address. We can’t talk out of both sides of our mouths. Either we believe children need to be protected from deliberate hurt or we don’t.
(For further reading, an earlier post: “A Simple Plea: Do Not Lay Hands Upon Our Children”.)
juicyfruityyy September 16th, 2014 at 17:05
We haven’t seen or heard the worst of child abuse. Sometimes a child is removed and sometimes their cries are ignored. This also goes to the teachers who paddle their student. And the Nuns, who slap your hand and knuckles with a ruler. It is hitting and should not be allowed.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 17:27
I think that’s how it became normal behavior. We heard those stories about nuns and schools and let it go.
I remember my kid’s principal showing off his homemade wooden paddle, complete with holes so it would hurt more. I told him, “If I ever hear about you using that I’ll have you arrested.” I was PTA president at the time and he needed me so he just laughed it off. This was in the late 1960s.
R.J. Carter September 16th, 2014 at 17:05
“Spanking is what parents and caretakers do to kids when they’ve lost their tempers and the only road to relief is to hit somebody.”
That’s an assumption propped up by existing examples of abusive parents. It’s not universally applicable.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 17:23
??
R.J. Carter September 16th, 2014 at 17:38
Not every parent is spanking their child for an outlet for their frustration.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 19:03
What would be another reason?
Robert M. Snyder September 16th, 2014 at 21:01
Are you serious? Really?
When I was a kid, I was mortified of getting a shot at the doctor’s office. It hurt like hell. But I knew that it was being done for my own good. And when I got spankings, I also knew the same thing. I never once thought that my parents were monsters because they demonstrated their love in so many ways, one of which was an occasional, well-deserved spanking.
I also got spanked four times in first grade, each time by a female public school teacher. Like the time when a girl stole my Frisbee and wouldn’t give it back, so I punched her in the stomach. Yep, I definitely got a spanking for that. And then the incident was over.
Today, our “enlightened” educators would label a kid like me as “having a problem”, send him to a year of counseling, put him on Ritalin, and probably destroy the kid’s self-esteem in the process.
I thank God that I merely got a 60-second spanking instead of the cruelty that well-meaning adult idiots perpetrate on kids today.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 23:57
No teacher or authority figure should be in a position where they can spank a child and get away with it. You may think that’s fine but you’re in the minority.
You make it sound as if it’s spanking or nothing. That anything else just won’t work. That’s nonsense. Millions of kids have grown into fine, responsible adults without ever having been spanked. It can be done without laying a hand on a kid with the intention of hurting them. It HAS been done. Spanking never solved anything.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:17
and you would have grown up to be what.. a bank robber because your parents chose not to hit little kids? Please
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 17:42
It may be a generalization but mostly accurate, especially when viewing the action in hindsight. Responsible and smart parenting should never involve striking a child. It’s a lazy parent that uses spanking as a way to exert control over their child. There are a ton of free readily available resources to parent these days on effective discipline, the methods require patience, consistency and a lot of hard work. As parents, we have an opportunity to provide our children with the best possible start in life – why would we do anything less than our absolute best?
Tommy6860 September 16th, 2014 at 17:52
This^ so much! I never raised a hand at my children, but when I meted out discipline, it was always on the denial of the material stuff that was most effective. When one of the kids would get over their hurt of losing a certain privilege, they’d come to me (or their mother) and we’d talk it over Most times they’d understand having the time they did to think over the wrong they did, and get a good conclusion.
I found that most times when one of the kids did something wrong, the result of that wrong was reflected from their action and what they got out of it. I explained it in ways that I would not double down on the punishment they already inflicted upon themselves.
burqa September 16th, 2014 at 20:12
Taking away their favorite toys works, as does sitting them in a corner.
There was a time when I was sort of like Uncle Charlie in My Three Sons for a family living out in the country. They had a couple young boys who were out of control. One parent worked long hours and the other less, but she had college, too, and both were frazzled by the time they got home.
The most effective punishment in my arsenal was to send the kids outside. It was the damnedest thing. They’d just mope and walk in circles around the house and wouldn’t step foot in the magnificent forest we lived in. That always blew me away, because when I was a kid, you couldn’t keep me out of the woods. Kids today are often scared to go in the woods and don’t know the first thing about tracking or deer stalking or any of the other things we used to do in the forest.
And these days they’d probably lock you up if you gave a kid a pocket knife….
burqa September 16th, 2014 at 20:12
Taking away their favorite toys works, as does sitting them in a corner.
There was a time when I was sort of like Uncle Charlie in My Three Sons for a family living out in the country. They had a couple young boys who were out of control. One parent worked long hours and the other less, but she had college, too, and both were frazzled by the time they got home.
The most effective punishment in my arsenal was to send the kids outside. It was the damnedest thing. They’d just mope and walk in circles around the house and wouldn’t step foot in the magnificent forest we lived in. That always blew me away, because when I was a kid, you couldn’t keep me out of the woods. Kids today are often scared to go in the woods and don’t know the first thing about tracking or deer stalking or any of the other things we used to do in the forest.
And these days they’d probably lock you up if you gave a kid a pocket knife….
Robert M. Snyder September 16th, 2014 at 20:47
I respectfully disagree, Carla. Our kids got timeouts 99% of the time when they misbehaved. But on three or four occasions, my son, while wearing trousers, got a spanking across his behind with my open hand. I’m not saying it’s right for every child, and certainly not for every circumstance. But if you knew me and my wife, I do not think you would characterize us as lazy parents.
My wife and I have seen parents losing control and really smacking their kids hard in grocery stores, and that is appalling. On the other hand, we have seen kids running around in restaurants, jumping up and down in several booths, yelling, and throwing food on the floor, while their parents just ignored their behavior. Those kids may not need a spanking, but they certainly need discipline.
What I see is that too many parents are trying to be their kids friends. They seem to think that if their kid is ever angry with them, that they must be doing something wrong. I used to tell my kids that if they were NEVER angry with me, then I wasn’t doing my job as a parent.
Kids have plenty of friends. What they need are parents who have the guts to do what is best for the child, even if it isn’t what the kids want, what all the other parents are doing, or what the “experts” recommend.
Saying yes and following the crowd is easy. I have known many parents who ask virtually nothing of their kids. No household chores. No limits. If you want to talk about lazy parents, I think that’s a good place to start.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:16
Respectfully, you’re wrong. I do not understand why this country is so determined to hang on “when I was young …and it was good enough for me…..and I turned out just fine…none of which is an acceptable or reasonable argument to continue the practice in light of all the information we have today on this subject. Trying to be your child’s friend is bad parenting, I agree but it doesn’t make striking a child good.
There are dozens of things we no longer do; put butter on burns, blow smoke in a baby’s ear for an earache, allow a child to stand in the front seat of the car – because we know better – hanging on to the idea that you are doing your child a favor by striking them – and that is the definition of spanking – is nuts.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 00:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEtcHdDyEvo
You know what? If we’re talking about a very occasional spanking, that does not cause physical injury, by parents who do it because they think it the best response in a particular situation, then it simply doesn’t matter whether I’m right or wrong. Yep. It just doesn’t matter. Why? Because kids are resilient. As a parent, you are going to make tons of mistakes, many of which will cause your child some type of emotional distress, embarrassment, feelings of self-doubt, etc. But it’s like those new adoption ads say. You don’t have to be perfect to be a perfect parent.
My wife and I just celebrated our 29th happy year of marriage. We raised two kids that are now very happy and optimistic young adults. There are dozens of things I wish I had done differently, and plenty of missed opportunities when I failed to do something that I later wished I had done. But that’s life.
My son probably would have turned out exactly the same if I had never spanked him. Or maybe not. We’ll never know. But I do know one thing: parenting is not a science, and you have to trust your instincts.
A big problem today is that we have been conditioned to think that as parents we have to do everything right, and that one little mistake can screw a kid up for life. And so people are getting neurotic. Kids are resilient. You can make a lot of small mistakes, and your kid will be just fine, as long as they know the depth of your love for them.
My wife and I never hesitated to apologize to our kids and ask for their forgiveness when we screwed up. We didn’t pretend to be perfect or to have all of the answers. We just did the best we could, trusted our instincts and our intellect, and made adjustments as we went along.
Our kids always came home to two parents who are deeply in love with each other and with them. Maybe those few spankings were unwise. So what? It just doesn’t matter.
But I’ll tell you what does matter:
– broken homes
– absent fathers and mothers
– substance-abusing fathers and mothers
Compared to those things, which are devastating to kids, a few conventional spankings during childhood are nothing. I happen to think they can be helpful. Too many kids are not learning impulse control. When I punched that girl in the stomach in first grade, I needed to learn about impulse control. I got the message loud and clear when Mrs. Henry spanked me in front of the class. Again, consider what would happen today if a first grade boy punched a first grade girl in the stomach. Is the modern solution superior to Mrs. Henry’s method? I am very skeptical.
When we were kids, adults had more confidence in kids. If a kid was misbehaving, the adults assumed that the kid was capable of doing better and simply lacked motivation. So punishments tended to be immediate and short-lived. Today we assume that the child is “broken”. We diagnose his condition, assign a label to it, and we bring in a team of specialists to begin a long-term process of “fixing” the child. The child internalizes the labels that the adults have assigned to him. He begins to see himself as broken. He may even relish the attention at first. But once the labels have been internalized, they are likely to remain. And that can be very damaging.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:14
when I was young we had to walk to school 14 miles each way and eat pocket lint for lunch AND WE LIKED IT!
Tommy6860 September 16th, 2014 at 17:58
Spanking is act of anger defined as punishment. No matter how one explains it away, when a parent uses that tactic as a form of punishment, they are acting out their own anger. It simply reinforces the theme that hitting is OK when one thinks it is a form of corrective action.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 19:07
Not accurate. When I was spanked(and yes, it is a separate meaning from ‘hitting’, just as murder is different than killing) it was for very few reasons(violating safety rules or respect for my mother) and it wasn’t out of anger. My father wasn’t ‘mad’ I crossed the street w/out permission, he was ensuring I wouldn’t do it again. There are proper uses for it and there are those that over use it. It is A tool, not the whole tool box.
Tommy6860 September 16th, 2014 at 19:34
And yet that rationalization is supposed to be rationalized by the mind of a child? You cannot explain away one inflicting pain on the physical being of a child for a wrong doing. What happens when your child strikes another child thinking s/he is meting out punishment for a wrong-doing and then how do you tell that child s/he was wrong for doing that? When one raises their hand and strikes a child as a form of punishment, that is anger and in no way is there happiness and good judgment in hitting.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:42
Actually no it isn’t ‘supposed to be rationalized’ by the child… spanking is a teaching tool on behavior, that a few actions will result in something very unpleasant. Some folks seem to think a child is an adult, thinks like an adult, has same capabilities as an adult.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:00
All that a spanking teaches is a child is might makes right, that as long as you’re bigger it’s okay to strike someone. No one said a child thinks like an adult – it’s a parent’s job to teach a child. There are hundreds of effective parenting tools at all age levels to accomplish this goal and none of them involve physical punishment.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 22:27
“All that a spanking teaches is a child is might makes right,”, not true, I was spanked and I don’t believe might makes right. Neither do my siblings, nor cousins, nor many friends.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 23:49
You sure about that? You do realize you are defending the act of striking a child, something every other developed country has outlawed as barbaric. Your father ensured you didn’t do it again by striking fear into you – not by teaching you thinking and decision-making skills. Essentially he used a Pavlovian response to training, much like one would a pet. This process only harms our children and it then repeats the cycle ensure poor education, poverty and despair. I am with Cris Carter, I’m sure our parents did the best they could with what they knew at the time – shouldn’t we do exactly the same.
Ramona Grigg September 17th, 2014 at 00:03
Agreed, Carla. Spanking is hitting and hitting is wrong. I don’t care how it was done years ago; we did a lot of stupid things years ago. We still do stupid things but if we can’t get beyond the notion that a kid can’t grow up right without a belting or two there’s something drastically wrong with us.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 05:56
I’m very sure of it.
“thinking and decision-making skills.” can’t be taught at certain ages, the ability isn’t there. I am not poorly educated, in poverty or full of despair. I nor my siblings & relatives have criminal records or abuse drugs. We were taught to fear the consequences of bad activity through a myriad of disciplinary tools.
fahvel September 17th, 2014 at 05:50
but you are terrified to consider the fact – as you stated – that the spankings you received were from love and here you are, the product, espousing hitting (spanking) a child. whew!!!
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 06:05
I don’t understand your post… I’m not terrified of anything that I’m aware of and yes, as a product of spanking I’m advocating spanking. I’m honestly not sure what you mean in this post.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:12
oddly enough.. thats the conservative mantra .. might makes right.
Im sure the conservatives trying to defend hitting little kids are not being totally honest here.
I have a feeling they are all about butching up the kid by hitting them .. proving violence is a viable answer. So they can go to congress and be just like McCain heh
Commodore September 17th, 2014 at 17:32
Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:10
murder isnt different from killing .. the results are both the same
you can try to rationalize hitting some little human that weights 30 lbs all you want. Maybe when they grow up. They will return the favor.
violence is violence period
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 16:35
Murder is a specific type of killing, as is fratricide, self-defense, etc. Your line of reasoning would make a motorcycle the same as a car cause they both provide transportation…
No, violence is not violence in all of it’s forms, period. But I do find it interesting here you are saying how wrong it is yet you hope they ‘return the favor’… hypocrisy?
burqa September 16th, 2014 at 20:01
I have known parents who believed spanking was an appropriate punishment for some offenses, but who also believed spanking when angry was wrong. They’d cool down and spank later. For them it was not an act of anger.
There was a whole line of thinking along these lines in texts dealing with parenting 50 or 60 years ago.
juicyfruityyy September 16th, 2014 at 17:05
We haven’t seen or heard the worst of child abuse. Sometimes a child is removed and sometimes their cries are ignored. This also goes to the teachers who paddle their student. And the Nuns, who slap your hand and knuckles with a ruler. It is hitting and should not be allowed.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 17:27
I think that’s how it became normal behavior. We heard those stories about nuns and schools and let it go.
I remember my kid’s principal showing off his homemade wooden paddle, complete with holes so it would hurt more. I told him, “If I ever hear about you using that I’ll have you arrested.” I was PTA president at the time and he needed me so he just laughed it off. This was in the late 1960s.
R.J. Carter September 16th, 2014 at 17:05
“Spanking is what parents and caretakers do to kids when they’ve lost their tempers and the only road to relief is to hit somebody.”
That’s an assumption propped up by existing examples of abusive parents. It’s not universally applicable.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 17:23
??
R.J. Carter September 16th, 2014 at 17:38
Not every parent is spanking their child for an outlet for their frustration.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 19:03
What would be another reason?
Robert M. Snyder September 16th, 2014 at 21:01
Are you serious? Really?
When I was a kid, I was mortified of getting a shot at the doctor’s office. It hurt like hell. But I knew that it was being done for my own good. And when I got spankings, I also knew the same thing. I never once thought that my parents were monsters because they demonstrated their love in so many ways, one of which was an occasional, well-deserved spanking.
I also got spanked four times in first grade, each time by a female public school teacher. Like the time when a girl stole my Frisbee and wouldn’t give it back, so I punched her in the stomach. Yep, I definitely got a spanking for that. And then the incident was over.
Today, our “enlightened” educators would label a kid like me as “having a problem”, send him to a year of counseling, put him on Ritalin, and probably destroy the kid’s self-esteem in the process.
I thank God that I merely got a 60-second spanking instead of the cruelty that well-meaning adult idiots perpetrate on kids today.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 23:57
No teacher or authority figure should be in a position where they can spank a child and get away with it. You may think that’s fine but you’re in the minority.
You make it sound as if it’s spanking or nothing. That anything else just won’t work. That’s nonsense. Millions of kids have grown into fine, responsible adults without ever having been spanked. It can be done without laying a hand on a kid with the intention of hurting them. It HAS been done. Spanking never solved anything.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:17
and you would have grown up to be what.. a bank robber because your parents chose not to hit little kids? Please
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 17:42
It may be a generalization but mostly accurate, especially when viewing the action in hindsight. Responsible and smart parenting should never involve striking a child. It’s a lazy parent that uses spanking as a way to exert control over their child. There are a ton of free readily available resources to parent these days on effective discipline, the methods require patience, consistency and a lot of hard work. As parents, we have an opportunity to provide our children with the best possible start in life – why would we do anything less than our absolute best?
Tommy6860 September 16th, 2014 at 17:52
This^ so much! I never raised a hand at my children, but when I meted out discipline, it was always on the denial of the material stuff that was most effective. When one of the kids would get over their hurt of losing a certain privilege, they’d come to me (or their mother) and we’d talk it over Most times they’d understand having the time they did to think over the wrong they did, and get a good conclusion.
I found that most times when one of the kids did something wrong, the result of that wrong was reflected from their action and what they got out of it. I explained it in ways that I would not double down on the punishment they already inflicted upon themselves.
burqa September 16th, 2014 at 20:12
Taking away their favorite toys works, as does sitting them in a corner.
There was a time when I was sort of like Uncle Charlie in My Three Sons for a family living out in the country. They had a couple young boys who were out of control. One parent worked long hours and the other less, but she had college, too, and both were frazzled by the time they got home.
The most effective punishment in my arsenal was to send the kids outside. It was the damnedest thing. They’d just mope and walk in circles around the house and wouldn’t step foot in the magnificent forest we lived in. That always blew me away, because when I was a kid, you couldn’t keep me out of the woods. Kids today are often scared to go in the woods and don’t know the first thing about tracking or deer stalking or any of the other things we used to do in the forest.
And these days they’d probably lock you up if you gave a kid a pocket knife….
Robert M. Snyder September 16th, 2014 at 20:47
I respectfully disagree, Carla. Our kids got timeouts 99% of the time when they misbehaved. But on three or four occasions, my son, while wearing trousers, got a spanking across his behind with my open hand. I’m not saying it’s right for every child, and certainly not for every circumstance. But if you knew me and my wife, I do not think you would characterize us as lazy parents.
My wife and I have seen parents losing control and really smacking their kids hard in grocery stores, and that is appalling. On the other hand, we have seen kids running around in restaurants, jumping up and down in several booths, yelling, and throwing food on the floor, while their parents just ignored their behavior. Those kids may not need a spanking, but they certainly need discipline.
What I see is that too many parents are trying to be their kids friends. They seem to think that if their kid is ever angry with them, that they must be doing something wrong. I used to tell my kids that if they were NEVER angry with me, then I wasn’t doing my job as a parent.
Kids have plenty of friends. What they need are parents who have the guts to do what is best for the child, even if it isn’t what the kids want, what all the other parents are doing, or what the “experts” recommend.
Saying yes and following the crowd is easy. I have known many parents who ask virtually nothing of their kids. No household chores. No limits. If you want to talk about lazy parents, I think that’s a good place to start.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:16
Respectfully, you’re wrong. I do not understand why this country is so determined to hang on “when I was young …and it was good enough for me…..and I turned out just fine…none of which is an acceptable or reasonable argument to continue the practice in light of all the information we have today on this subject. Trying to be your child’s friend is bad parenting, I agree but it doesn’t make striking a child good.
There are dozens of things we no longer do; put butter on burns, blow smoke in a baby’s ear for an earache, allow a child to stand in the front seat of the car – because we know better – hanging on to the idea that you are doing your child a favor by striking them – and that is the definition of spanking – is nuts.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 00:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEtcHdDyEvo
You know what? If we’re talking about a very occasional spanking, that does not cause physical injury, by parents who do it because they think it the best response in a particular situation, then it simply doesn’t matter whether I’m right or wrong. Yep. It just doesn’t matter. Why? Because kids are resilient. As a parent, you are going to make tons of mistakes, many of which will cause your child some type of emotional distress, embarrassment, feelings of self-doubt, etc. But it’s like those new adoption ads say. You don’t have to be perfect to be a perfect parent.
My wife and I just celebrated our 29th happy year of marriage. We raised two kids that are now very happy and optimistic young adults. There are dozens of things I wish I had done differently, and plenty of missed opportunities when I failed to do something that I later wished I had done. But that’s life.
My son probably would have turned out exactly the same if I had never spanked him. Or maybe not. We’ll never know. But I do know one thing: parenting is not a science, and you have to trust your instincts.
A big problem today is that we have been conditioned to think that as parents we have to do everything right, and that one little mistake can screw a kid up for life. And so people are getting neurotic. Kids are resilient. You can make a lot of small mistakes, and your kid will be just fine, as long as they know the depth of your love for them.
My wife and I never hesitated to apologize to our kids and ask for their forgiveness when we screwed up. We didn’t pretend to be perfect or to have all of the answers. We just did the best we could, trusted our instincts and our intellect, and made adjustments as we went along.
Our kids always came home to two parents who are deeply in love with each other and with them. Maybe those few spankings were unwise. So what? It just doesn’t matter.
But I’ll tell you what does matter:
– broken homes
– absent fathers and mothers
– substance-abusing fathers and mothers
Compared to those things, which are devastating to kids, a few conventional spankings during childhood are nothing. I happen to think they can be helpful. Too many kids are not learning impulse control. When I punched that girl in the stomach in first grade, I needed to learn about impulse control. I got the message loud and clear when Mrs. Henry spanked me in front of the class. Again, consider what would happen today if a first grade boy punched a first grade girl in the stomach. Is the modern solution superior to Mrs. Henry’s method? I am very skeptical.
When we were kids, adults had more confidence in kids. If a kid was misbehaving, the adults assumed that the kid was capable of doing better and simply lacked motivation. So punishments tended to be immediate and short-lived. Today we assume that the child is “broken”. We diagnose his condition, assign a label to it, and we bring in a team of specialists to begin a long-term process of “fixing” the child. The child internalizes the labels that the adults have assigned to him. He begins to see himself as broken. He may even relish the attention at first. But once the labels have been internalized, they are likely to remain. And that can be very damaging.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:14
when I was young we had to walk to school 14 miles each way and eat pocket lint for lunch AND WE LIKED IT!
Tommy6860 September 16th, 2014 at 17:58
Spanking is act of anger defined as punishment. No matter how one explains it away, when a parent uses that tactic as a form of punishment, they are acting out their own anger. It simply reinforces the theme that hitting is OK when one thinks it is a form of corrective action.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 19:07
Not accurate. When I was spanked(and yes, it is a separate meaning from ‘hitting’, just as murder is different than killing) it was for very few reasons(violating safety rules or respect for my mother) and it wasn’t out of anger. My father wasn’t ‘mad’ I crossed the street w/out permission, he was ensuring I wouldn’t do it again. There are proper uses for it and there are those that over use it. It is A tool, not the whole tool box.
Tommy6860 September 16th, 2014 at 19:34
And yet that rationalization is supposed to be rationalized by the mind of a child? You cannot explain away one inflicting pain on the physical being of a child for a wrong doing. What happens when your child strikes another child thinking s/he is meting out punishment for a wrong-doing and then how do you tell that child s/he was wrong for doing that? When one raises their hand and strikes a child as a form of punishment, that is anger and in no way is there happiness and good judgment in hitting.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:42
Actually no it isn’t ‘supposed to be rationalized’ by the child… spanking is a teaching tool on behavior, that a few actions will result in something very unpleasant. Some folks seem to think a child is an adult, thinks like an adult, has same capabilities as an adult.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:00
All that a spanking teaches is a child is might makes right, that as long as you’re bigger it’s okay to strike someone. No one said a child thinks like an adult – it’s a parent’s job to teach a child. There are hundreds of effective parenting tools at all age levels to accomplish this goal and none of them involve physical punishment.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 22:27
“All that a spanking teaches is a child is might makes right,”, not true, I was spanked and I don’t believe might makes right. Neither do my siblings, nor cousins, nor many friends.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 23:49
You sure about that? You do realize you are defending the act of striking a child, something every other developed country has outlawed as barbaric. Your father ensured you didn’t do it again by striking fear into you – not by teaching you thinking and decision-making skills. Essentially he used a Pavlovian response to training, much like one would a pet. This process only harms our children and it then repeats the cycle ensure poor education, poverty and despair. I am with Cris Carter, I’m sure our parents did the best they could with what they knew at the time – shouldn’t we do exactly the same.
Ramona Grigg September 17th, 2014 at 00:03
Agreed, Carla. Spanking is hitting and hitting is wrong. I don’t care how it was done years ago; we did a lot of stupid things years ago. We still do stupid things but if we can’t get beyond the notion that a kid can’t grow up right without a belting or two there’s something drastically wrong with us.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 05:56
I’m very sure of it.
“thinking and decision-making skills.” can’t be taught at certain ages, the ability isn’t there. I am not poorly educated, in poverty or full of despair. I nor my siblings & relatives have criminal records or abuse drugs. We were taught to fear the consequences of bad activity through a myriad of disciplinary tools.
fahvel September 17th, 2014 at 05:50
but you are terrified to consider the fact – as you stated – that the spankings you received were from love and here you are, the product, espousing hitting (spanking) a child. whew!!!
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 06:05
I don’t understand your post… I’m not terrified of anything that I’m aware of and yes, as a product of spanking I’m advocating spanking. I’m honestly not sure what you mean in this post.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:12
oddly enough.. thats the conservative mantra .. might makes right.
Im sure the conservatives trying to defend hitting little kids are not being totally honest here.
I have a feeling they are all about butching up the kid by hitting them .. proving violence is a viable answer. So they can go to congress and be just like McCain heh
TedT3289 September 17th, 2014 at 17:32
Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:10
murder isnt different from killing .. the results are both the same
you can try to rationalize hitting some little human that weights 30 lbs all you want. Maybe when they grow up. They will return the favor.
violence is violence period
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 16:35
Murder is a specific type of killing, as is fratricide, self-defense, etc. Your line of reasoning would make a motorcycle the same as a car cause they both provide transportation…
No, violence is not violence in all of it’s forms, period. But I do find it interesting here you are saying how wrong it is yet you hope they ‘return the favor’… hypocrisy?
burqa September 16th, 2014 at 20:01
I have known parents who believed spanking was an appropriate punishment for some offenses, but who also believed spanking when angry was wrong. They’d cool down and spank later. For them it was not an act of anger.
There was a whole line of thinking along these lines in texts dealing with parenting 50 or 60 years ago.
R J September 16th, 2014 at 17:56
As a child I received four spanking in my life,never once was I hit out of anger,nor did it teach me that violence is the way to solve my problems. All four spanking were well earned on my part. I have no problem with the way I was raised,because it was the job of my family to make sure that I as young black male did not end up in the prison pipe line,or and early grave. Now I am not an advocate for/or against the use of spanking, I can only speak to what worked for me.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 19:05
Do you think you would be the same person without the spankings?
R J September 16th, 2014 at 19:24
No,I would have dead or in jail, the important thing to understand is that the spanking were earned on my part. Again only speaking for what worked for me.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:03
wow! who knew 4 spankings changed your life!
lucky u
R J September 17th, 2014 at 17:44
Two different people,two different situations, two different outcomes.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 19:42
one salient point.. dont hit kids period
R J September 17th, 2014 at 23:07
You seem to have a problem with the fact that I don’t view my experiences as being a negative experience for me.
Chinese Democracy September 18th, 2014 at 00:29
I dont have a problem with you being ok with being hit.. I just dont want you hitting any other kids. Thankfully in a lot of states its illegal
R J September 18th, 2014 at 07:50
So you want to dictate how people raise their children.
Chinese Democracy September 18th, 2014 at 13:53
word it any way you want.. but if you live in california and hit your kid. you go to jail
I never used the word friend… I used the word boyfriend as in live together and have sexual relations boyfriend
R J September 18th, 2014 at 18:47
First off you are dead wrong in stating that I grew up in an authoritarian household. Second you have no idea were I stand on the use of C.P. seeing as how I only stated my own experience. Third, you’re no different than the avg right winger in believing that your way is the only way to view things. All you want to do is stand on top of your soap box and scream to the world,if you wish to outlaw the use of C.P.nationwide,fine,but now talk about what steps are you taking towards your goals. Are you working on a state level,or are you organizing a national movement ?
Chinese Democracy September 18th, 2014 at 19:06
when it comes to hitting kids.. there is only one “right way”
Alll I am saying… is give peace a chance..
R J September 16th, 2014 at 17:56
As a child I received four spanking in my life,never once was I hit out of anger,nor did it teach me that violence is the way to solve my problems. All four spanking were well earned on my part. I have no problem with the way I was raised,because it was the job of my family to make sure that I as young black male did not end up in the prison pipeline,or and early grave. Now I am not an advocate for/or against the use of spanking, I can only speak to what worked for me.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 19:05
Do you think you would be the same person without the spankings?
R J September 16th, 2014 at 19:24
No,I would be dead or in jail, the important thing to understand is that the spanking were earned on my part. Again only speaking for what worked for me.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:03
wow! who knew 4 spankings could changed your life!
my b/f was beat with a belt till he had welts all over his legs and back some bleading. This happened again and again. Gosh think it changed his life?
lucky u
R J September 17th, 2014 at 17:44
Two different people,two different situations, two different outcomes.
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 19:42
one salient point.. dont hit kids period
R J September 17th, 2014 at 23:07
You seem to have a problem with the fact that I don’t view my experiences as being a negative experience for me.
Chinese Democracy September 18th, 2014 at 00:29
I dont have a problem with you being ok with being hit.. I just dont want you hitting any other kids. Thankfully in a lot of states its illegal
R J September 18th, 2014 at 07:50
So you wish to dictate how people raise their children, because you know what’s best for everyone based upon the experience of your friend.
Chinese Democracy September 18th, 2014 at 13:53
Yes Im not a conservative I believe in the common good..
I want to dictate a lot of things. No guns in schools.. no hitting little kids for any reason.. No beating your wife etc
Im glad you where happy to grow up in an authoritarian household. But there is no way you can prove hitting did you any good whatsoever.
Your argument is .. the conservative argument. If a parent wants to hit their kids the gov needs to stay out of it.
Btw kids arent possessions
R J September 18th, 2014 at 18:47
First off you are dead wrong in stating that I grew up in an authoritarian household. Second you have no idea were I stand on the use of C.P. seeing as how I only stated my own experience. Third, you’re no different than the avg right winger in believing that your way is the only way to view things. All you want to do is stand on top of your soap box and scream to the world,if you wish to outlaw the use of C.P.nationwide,fine,but now talk about what steps are you taking towards your goals. Are you working on a state level,or are you organizing a national movement ?
Chinese Democracy September 18th, 2014 at 19:06
when it comes to hitting kids.. there is only one “right way”
Alll I am saying… is give peace a chance..
Dirk Prophet September 16th, 2014 at 18:04
Why the butt, if not sexual?
rg9rts September 16th, 2014 at 18:04
The best discipline is the LOOK. Stop me in my tracks… You don’t need to hit …if you do …you are parenting wrong.
Dirk Prophet September 16th, 2014 at 18:05
I agree, fear of unknown consequences is much more effective.
burqa September 16th, 2014 at 19:54
Like most things having to do with human behavior, I think it is more complicated than that.
One mistake I see many parents make is they try to be friends with their kids and treat them as peers and the kids get completely out of control and don’t listen to the parents.
Parents have to get the upper hand when the child is very young and then keep their authority. It doesn’t take a lot for an adult to intimidate a 3 year-old.
Dirk Prophet September 16th, 2014 at 18:04
Why the butt, if not sexual?
rg9rts September 16th, 2014 at 18:04
The best discipline is the LOOK. Stop me in my tracks… You don’t need to hit …if you do …you are parenting wrong.
Dirk Prophet September 16th, 2014 at 18:05
I agree, fear of unknown consequences is much more effective.
burqa September 16th, 2014 at 19:54
Like most things having to do with human behavior, I think it is more complicated than that.
One mistake I see many parents make is they try to be friends with their kids and treat them as peers and the kids get completely out of control and don’t listen to the parents.
Parents have to get the upper hand when the child is very young and then keep their authority. It doesn’t take a lot for an adult to intimidate a 3 year-old.
William September 16th, 2014 at 18:35
I often suspected my ex was abused as a child, or she just really REALLY hated High fives.
William September 16th, 2014 at 18:35
I often suspected my ex was abused as a child, or she just really REALLY hated High fives.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 19:48
Louis CK made a powerful point about “spanking:”
Your child, a vulnerable little soft-headed kid who trusts you implicitly, is literally the only person on the face of the planet you are allowed to hit.
I cannot strike you, any other adult, or even other people’s kids, unless you give me reason to believe that you pose an immediate threat to my safety, but if my child actss up? Yeah! Beat the hell out ’em!
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:33
I’m not sure a child being compared to an adult is legit, in almost any case.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 20:43
You’re right; that’s why it’s even WORSE.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:44
In your opinion.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 20:45
Well “a child is not an adult” was the only counter-argument to my point you made, so if you’re trying to make a persuasive argument for why you need to hit your kid, you’re not doing a very good job.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:48
I’m not trying to ‘convince’ you or be persuasive on that point, it says it all on its own, or should for most people. When someone does an incorrect comparison, the entire point they make is negated.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 20:54
You’ll note that I also compared children to other children, but you’re ignoring that part because it’s inconvenient for your lack-of-argument. Literally the only person I’m allowed to hit on the face of the planet is my kid, not even anyone else’s, unless they pose an immediate threat to my safety.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 21:01
“because it’s inconvenient for your lack-of-argument.” I have no argument on your point because it’s a bad/incorrect comparison. As for the kid-hit-kid aspect, totally different topic then a parent spanking a child for specific purposes, so no, I didn’t address it, didn’t feel the need.
” Literally the only person I’m allowed to hit on the face of the planet is my kid,” because that’s when we learn things, when we’re kids. I can’t take away driving privileges from another adult, I can’t send an adult into the corner, or ground them either, so what? Since I can’t ground an adult, your argument says I shouldn’t be allowed to ground my child either. Silly.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 21:04
I hope you’re not in any sort of managerial position at work, because you apparently can’t think of any way to discipline people you hold institutional power over without hitting them.
You control an employee’s paycheck and that’s enough power to keep them in line, but you can’t control a child without hitting them, even when you control damn near every single aspect of their lives?
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 21:09
Now see, your statement of “because you apparently can’t think of any way to discipline…without hitting them” is totally out of line. Please show me where I said the ONLY way to discipline a child was spanking? Or even suggested it? Since I didn’t, why would you attribute that to me in a civil discussion?
And I never looked at raising children as controlling them, that’s interesting that you do; to me it’s about teaching them.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 21:32
You teach through violence? Can you illustrate another scenario where that’s applicable, or is teaching through violence conveniently ONLY applicable to children, and only your own children?
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 22:10
How many times has a child stood up to a bully by fighting back and the bully has desisted? Many schools spank, catholic schools use rulers :) … we’re about to use the military(violence) to teach T.W.I.T.s a lesson…
How many times have you heard “well that will teach them not to put their hands on a hot stove again”? It’s an actual cliche.
There are some things in life that have to be taught/learned the very first time and last. I’d rather a child has a stinging bottom for a few minutes then die. My view.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 00:57
“How many times has a child stood up to a bully by fighting back and the bully has desisted?”
Uhh…virtually never, because bullies aren’t effective due to kids not standing up for themselves, they’re effective because they have power and/or status over the victim. Did you actually go to school, or just watch a whole lot of television? How many decades ago was it that you last set foot inside a school?
“Many schools spank, catholic schools use rulers :)”
Love how you add a little smiley to this. HAHA! Kids getting beat with rulers! Hilarious and adorable! Also, I guess that answers my question: MANY decades, since Catholic schools haven’t done that for ages.
“well that will teach them not to put their hands on a hot stove again”
You’re comparing your hand to a flame, as if your open palm is out of your control, and is harmful by its very nature, and the kid just willingly ran into it of his own volition. Removing agency of the violent act from yourself and blaming the kid for the pain he is apparently inflicting on himself, according to your dumbass metaphor.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 05:43
“Uhh, virtually never”
Youtube are full of videos of it actually happening, not to mention if you google it the written stories of kids telling their stories of it.
“HAHA! Kids getting beat with rulers! Hilarious and adorable! Also, I
guess that answers my question: MANY decades, since Catholic schools
haven’t done that for ages.”
First, the smiley was at the cliche.
Second, go to a traditional catholic school, many still do it for various offenses.
“You’re comparing your hand to a flame…”
What? That paragraph didn’t make any sense.
“according to your dumbass metaphor.”
Besides the obvious lack of civility, it wasn’t a metaphor, it was a cliche, it shows that pain can teach.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 11:02
The difference is that you are comparing hitting the child (pain that you control and inflict) to a child touching an open flame (pain that you do not control and the child inflicts on himself).
You are removing your agency in the matter and the comparison implies that the child is inflicting the pain of your violence on HIMSELF, as if your open palm is out of your control, or the child just ran into your fist.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 16:37
No, I’m showing that pain can teach, that’s it with that example, that pain can teach… I’m not removing anything cause that’s not the point, the origin.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 17:09
It is the point though, you just don’t want to acknowledge it because it’s an inconvenient point for your argument. Because omitting the agent of the action looks better for you. That way you don’t have to acknowledge that YOU are the one inflicting pain as your teaching method of choice.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 17:20
No I’m not, you’re making things up, I said it was an EXAMPLE OF PAIN TEACHING… AND I said I believe in spanking, so what am I ‘denying’??
Since we’re not going to convince each other on a forum and you’re purposely making things up, I’m ending my side of this discussion w/you.
Have a good day.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 18:04
Well you said that when someone makes an invalid comparison, their entire argument is invalid, so I’m turning the tables on you.
You are comparing a child self-inflicting pain to a child having pain inflicted on him by an adult. These are two VERY different things, and your comparison is invalid. Therefore, according to your own logic, so is everything you’ve said.
fahvel September 17th, 2014 at 05:48
short of the frustration of the likes of the spirit of america, why oh why did you continue the blather with it?
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:01
I love the way you think! Stand up kids! Next time your parent hits you. slap them as hard as you can across the face
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 16:35
so you DO advocate violence, I knew it…
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 17:42
its called sarcasm .. wait where you being sarcastic? Im all connnn fuzed now
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 17:51
:)
androgyne anode September 18th, 2014 at 12:08
MMA training?
/s
crash2parties September 16th, 2014 at 20:38
Out of 38 nations, guess which two do not outlaw striking a child?
That’s right, Somalia and the USA.
Neither would/could ratify the the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC). In all of the other industrialize nations of the world, spanking a child is seen as abuse.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 21:01
As it should be. We’re an embarrassment in that regard.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:05
Toss in maternity leave and one would believe that America doesn’t like women or children.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 19:48
Louis CK made a powerful point about “spanking:”
Your child, a vulnerable little soft-headed kid who trusts you implicitly, is literally the only person on the face of the planet you are allowed to hit.
I cannot strike you, any other adult, or even other people’s kids, unless you give me reason to believe that you pose an immediate threat to my safety, but if my child acts up? Yeah! Beat the hell outta ’em!
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:33
I’m not sure a child being compared to an adult is legit, in almost any case.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 20:43
You’re right; that’s why it’s even WORSE.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:44
In your opinion.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 20:45
Well “a child is not an adult” was the only counter-argument to my point you made, so if you’re trying to make a persuasive argument for why you need to hit your kid, you’re not doing a very good job.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 20:48
I’m not trying to ‘convince’ you or be persuasive on that point, it says it all on its own, or should for most people. When someone does an incorrect comparison, the entire point they make is negated.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 20:54
You’ll note that I also compared children to other children, but you’re ignoring that part because it’s inconvenient for your lack-of-argument. Literally the only person I’m allowed to hit on the face of the planet is my kid, not even anyone else’s, unless they pose an immediate threat to my safety.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 21:01
“because it’s inconvenient for your lack-of-argument.” I have no argument on your point because it’s a bad/incorrect comparison. As for the kid-hit-kid aspect, totally different topic then a parent spanking a child for specific purposes, so no, I didn’t address it, didn’t feel the need.
” Literally the only person I’m allowed to hit on the face of the planet is my kid,” because that’s when we learn things, when we’re kids. I can’t take away driving privileges from another adult, I can’t send an adult into the corner, or ground them either, so what? Since I can’t ground an adult, your argument says I shouldn’t be allowed to ground my child either. Silly.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 21:04
I hope you’re not in any sort of managerial position at work, because you apparently can’t think of any way to discipline people you hold institutional power over without hitting them.
You control an employee’s paycheck and that’s enough power to keep them in line, but you can’t control a child without hitting them, even when you control damn near every single aspect of their lives?
Then again, you also seem to believe that you stopped learning things when you turned 18 or something. Maybe you did, but that’s not something I’d brag about on the internet.
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 21:09
Now see, your statement of “because you apparently can’t think of any way to discipline…without hitting them” is totally out of line. Please show me where I said the ONLY way to discipline a child was spanking? Or even suggested it? Since I didn’t, why would you attribute that to me in a civil discussion?
And I never looked at raising children as controlling them, that’s interesting that you do; to me it’s about teaching them.
Rusty Shackleford September 16th, 2014 at 21:32
You teach through violence? Can you illustrate another scenario where that’s applicable, or is teaching through violence conveniently ONLY applicable to children, and only your own children?
Spirit of America September 16th, 2014 at 22:10
How many times has a child stood up to a bully by fighting back and the bully has desisted? Many schools spank, catholic schools use rulers :) … we’re about to use the military(violence) to teach T.W.I.T.s a lesson…
How many times have you heard “well that will teach them not to put their hands on a hot stove again”? It’s an actual cliche.
There are some things in life that have to be taught/learned the very first time and last. I’d rather a child has a stinging bottom for a few minutes then die. My view.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 00:57
“How many times has a child stood up to a bully by fighting back and the bully has desisted?”
Uhh…virtually never, because bullies aren’t effective due to kids not standing up for themselves, they’re effective because they have power and/or status over the victim. Did you actually go to school, or just watch a whole lot of television? How many decades ago was it that you last set foot inside a school?
“Many schools spank, catholic schools use rulers :)”
Love how you add a little smiley to this. HAHA! Kids getting beat with rulers! Hilarious and adorable! Also, I guess that answers my question: MANY decades, since Catholic schools haven’t done that for ages.
“well that will teach them not to put their hands on a hot stove again”
You’re comparing your hand to a flame, as if your open palm is out of your control, and is harmful by its very nature, and the kid just willingly ran into it of his own volition. Removing agency of the violent act from yourself and blaming the kid for the pain he is apparently inflicting on himself, according to your dumbass metaphor.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 05:43
“Uhh, virtually never”
Youtube are full of videos of it actually happening, not to mention if you google it the written stories of kids telling their stories of it.
“HAHA! Kids getting beat with rulers! Hilarious and adorable! Also, I
guess that answers my question: MANY decades, since Catholic schools
haven’t done that for ages.”
First, the smiley was at the cliche.
Second, go to a traditional catholic school, many still do it for various offenses.
“You’re comparing your hand to a flame…”
What? That paragraph didn’t make any sense.
“according to your dumbass metaphor.”
Besides the obvious lack of civility, it wasn’t a metaphor, it was a cliche, it shows that pain can teach.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 11:02
The difference is that you are comparing hitting the child (pain that you control and inflict) to a child touching an open flame (pain that you do not control and the child inflicts on himself).
You are removing your agency in the matter and the comparison implies that the child is inflicting the pain of your violence on HIMSELF, as if your open palm is out of your control, or the child just ran into your fist.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 16:37
No, I’m showing that pain can teach, that’s it with that example, that pain can teach… I’m not removing anything cause that’s not the point, the origin.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 17:09
It is the point though, you just don’t want to acknowledge it because it’s an inconvenient point for your argument. Because omitting the agent of the action looks better for you. That way you don’t have to acknowledge that YOU are the one inflicting pain as your teaching method of choice.
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 17:20
No I’m not, you’re making things up, I said it was an EXAMPLE OF PAIN TEACHING… AND I said I believe in spanking, so what am I ‘denying’??
Since we’re not going to convince each other on a forum and you’re purposely making things up, I’m ending my side of this discussion w/you.
Have a good day.
Rusty Shackleford September 17th, 2014 at 18:04
Well you said that when someone makes an invalid comparison, their entire argument is invalid, so I’m turning the tables on you.
You are comparing a child self-inflicting pain to a child having pain inflicted on him by an adult. These are two VERY different things, and your comparison is invalid. Therefore, according to your own logic, so is everything you’ve said.
fahvel September 17th, 2014 at 05:48
short of the frustration of the likes of the spirit of america, why oh why did you continue the blather with it?
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 16:01
I love the way you think! Stand up kids! Next time your parent hits you. slap them as hard as you can across the face
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 16:35
so you DO advocate violence, I knew it…
Chinese Democracy September 17th, 2014 at 17:42
its called sarcasm .. wait where you being sarcastic? Im all connnn fuzed now
Spirit of America September 17th, 2014 at 17:51
:)
πΉπΆππΆπ½ βπΆπ β€ππΏ September 18th, 2014 at 12:08
MMA training?
/s
β½ Majorana Fermion βΎ September 16th, 2014 at 20:38
Out of 38 nations, guess which two do not outlaw striking a child?
That’s right, Somalia and the USA.
Neither would/could ratify the the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC). In all of the other industrialize nations of the world, spanking a child is seen as abuse.
Ramona Grigg September 16th, 2014 at 21:01
As it should be. We’re an embarrassment in that regard.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:05
Toss in maternity leave and one would believe that America doesn’t like women or children.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 01:59
According to a CNN article from 2011, there are many nations that permit corporal punishment in the home.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/11/08/country.comparisons.corporal.punishment/
β½ Majorana Fermion βΎ September 17th, 2014 at 12:11
Um, did you look at the nations listed in that CNN article? Also, you might think about broadening your new sources, CNN has a bit of a bias reputation.
Here’s a more recent, more accurate assessment from wiki:
Currently 194 countries have ratified, accepted, or acceded to it (some with stated reservations or interpretations) including every member of the United Nations except Somalia, South Sudan and the United States.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:03
I understand that many believe and feel that spanking may have its place or be appropriate in some circumstances but this what we know. Spanking a child, yes spanking (not beating) offers these benefits:
Increases aggression (over the initial infraction) both short and long term
Damages self-esteem
Creates anxiety and fear
Damages parental relationship
Increases distrust
Ineffective in changing behavior long term
Ineffective in creating desirable behavior
Increases furtive behavior and actual dishonesty
Damages mental health
Lowers IQ
Increases delinquency and criminal behavior
Spanking frequency before age 2 is significantly and positively associated with child behavior problems at school age. These findings are consistent with those reported in studies of children older than 2 years but extend these findings to children who are spanked beginning at a relatively early age. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/113/5/1321.full?sid=eab1ba81-fcac-4f60-af18-544fd27bfe0c
Despite American Academy of Pediatrics recommendations to the contrary, most parents in the United States approve of and have used CP as a form of child discipline. The current findings suggest that even minor forms of CP, such as spanking, increase risk for increased child aggressive behavior. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/5/e1057.full?sid=eab1ba81-fcac-4f60-af18-544fd27bfe0c
Sources:
http://umaine.edu/publications/4357e/
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/132/5/e1118.full?sid=eab1ba81-fcac-4f60-af18-544fd27bfe0c
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/08/16/why-shouldnt-you-spank-your-kids-heres-9-reasons/
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/132/2/e333.full?sid=2d49a165-706e-470b-b55b-a8365a4efad7
American Psychoanalytic Association Position Statement (this group includes: American Academy of Pediatrics / National Association of Social Workers / National Alliance of Pupil Services Organizations ) can be found here:
It is a worthwhile read.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/great-kids-great-parents/201008/spanking-and-other-physical-punishments-revisited
Ramona Grigg September 17th, 2014 at 00:07
Thank you, Carla, for adding so much to this discussion. These links are useful and I’ll keep them for later use. I’m sure I’ll be needing them!
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 05:09
It’s kind of a thing with me, I have trouble letting go on this topic. :-/
Ramona September 18th, 2014 at 09:24
Me, too. I’ve been fighting against this for many years and getting nowhere. Still, I’ll keep trying. There are kids out there who need us to be on their side.
Carla Akins September 18th, 2014 at 11:55
Did you see this today in HuffPo? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/18/adrian-peterson-corporal-punishment-science_n_5831962.html
Blogvader September 18th, 2014 at 12:02
I was spanked as a child, and if I were a parent, I’d spank mine. I credit as helping me become a better child and adult.
I also don’t think you can call spanking a logical equivalent to whipping, which is pretty obviously what AP did.
Carla Akins September 18th, 2014 at 13:48
You are free to believe whatever you choose. As a matter of fact HuffPo has an article directly on point for your views. You should read it because whether you chose to believe it or not, spanking is never good or effective. I know, because I felt just like you 15 years ago and I would have defended that point to my dying breath – but I was wrong. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/18/adrian-peterson-corporal-punishment-science_n_5831962.html
Blogvader September 18th, 2014 at 13:55
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 17:37
Okay, now let’s see the statistics for the effects of bitter divorce and parental substance abuse. What are the effects of seeing mom and dad constantly shouting and fighting, or frequently stoned? You’re worried about an occasional spanking by loving parents? Give me a break.
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 17:47
The point is that it’s unnecessary. I have no problem with forgiving the act when a well-intentioned or even frustrated parent swats their kid out of desperation.
However doing it anyway, ignoring the tremendous amount of data or worse, advocating its use it is intentional. That makes no sense to me as a parent and grandparent.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 18:22
You’re trying to micromanage other people’s parenting. We are talking about cultural differences. Just because it’s not your style, that doesn’t make it wrong.
Perhaps CP is unnecessary. But so are teen fashion magazines, makeup, tattoos, piercings, pocket knives, laser pointers, and many other things that can cause problems when used inappropriately. Giving a kid too many timeouts for minor transgressions could be harmful. Not letting kids play outside in the fresh air and sunshine could be harmful. Obsessively using antibacterial soap to wash your kid’s hands could be harmful. Constantly making remarks about your daughter’s figure could be harmful.
At some point you just have to trust parents to use their best judgment, within reason. I would never spank an infant or a toddler. I only spanked my son a few times. Usually he got a timeout or removal of privileges. But it really bugs me that you think you know better. I accept what the science says, but science also says that your Yugo is more polluting and less efficient than a Prius or public transportation. So why do you persist in driving it? Does it seem like I am micromanaging your transportation choices? Micromanagement. Think about it.
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 19:26
I never said anything about legislating anything. I said spanking is never beneficial. Please point out where I ever mentioned anything about getting the government involved – I am against people advocating a bad practice based on hocus pocus – I was spanked theory.
Cris Carter was right – parents got it wrong. The idea is to speak openly, have a dialogue and allow social pressure to affect change. I admit I have spanked my kids when they were little, I wished to molly I hadn’t. I’m man enough to admit I got it wrong. I don’t drive a Yugo and work hard to learn something new every day. It’s a damn sight better than feeling foolish a few years down the road about digging in my heels without considering a different perspective.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 21:09
Someone else had pointed out that spanking is illegal in many other countries, so that was probably on my mind when I responded to your post. I stand corrected and I apologize for assuming that you wanted to legislate this. Knowing that you don’t actually makes me more willing to consider your viewpoint.
I don’t need to know the answer, but just a question to consider: Do you think that the spankings you gave your kids have resulted in any of the “benefits” you listed above (e.g. increased aggression, damaged self-esteem, etc)? And if you do, how can you be sure it was due to the spankings?
Goodness knows, there are TONS of factors in a kid’s life that can promote aggression and damage self-esteem. Teasing, bullying, watching violence on TV and in movies where the heroes often use violence to solve problems. It’s not as if your kids were raised in a petri dish. Even if your kids were totally messed up (which I’m sure they aren’t), how could you be so certain that it was due to a few spankings and not all of the other crap?
Sometimes it seems that the world is falling apart, and the most terrifying part is that we can’t control it. We desperately want to believe that we have control over things, like how our kids turn out. We want to believe that, if we do everything right, they will grow into happy, healthy adults who lead fulfilling lives. But kids who grow up in the same household often turn out to have dramatically different adult lives. I think a lot of it is due to biological differences, especially genetics. Some kids can endure tons of adversity and they turn out fine. Other kids turn out miserable despite having wonderful parents, teachers, and community. Of course, as parents, we want to control what we can in order to expose our kids to good influences and protect them from bad influences (i.e. things that might make them aggressive or damage their self esteem). But in the end, I think it’s managed chaos, and I don’t think there is any way to go back and say “Bob Snyder would have greater self-esteem today if only his teacher, Mrs. Henry, hadn’t spanked him that time he punched a girl in the stomach at recess.”.
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 21:41
Thanks, that last sentence made me laugh. My kids are fine- grown and kids of their own. None is aggressive, but they lived through our divorce, the loss of grandparents and friends and bad genetics.
I failed to give them the best possible start in life, the one thing I could have controlled was how I parented and I didn’t, I simply reacted. I never beat them, or used any implement to strike them, but I perpetuated the cycle. Instead of using the opportunity to guide my children in learning how to assess the situation, consider how their actions impact others how to make better choices.
You’re right, they already have all those others things working against them – why would we want to make it any tougher?
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 22:17
“I failed to give them the best possible start in life…”
You and every other parent I have ever known! The thing is that most people start having kids when they’re in their twenties. They are working and/or studying long hours. They are learning how to manage a household, how to please a boss and get promoted, how to do their taxes and maybe caring for an aging parent or grandparent. They don’t have a lot of time to read all of the scientific literature about circumcision, spanking, antibiotics, vaccinations, bullying, etc. It’s like those insurance commercials used to say: “Life comes at you fast”. So you did what most people do – you trusted your instincts.
Fortunately, most kids are pretty resilient. As long as we avoid big mistakes, I think most kids will do fine, as yours and mine have.
I think it is also worth considering whether a certain amount of stress and pain is actually healthy for children. I know it sounds silly, but hear me out. Kids who grow up on farms have lower rates of asthma and allergies than kids who grow up in squeaky clean suburban homes. It turns out that when the developing immune system is confronted by a certain amount of crud, it learns how to deal with it and gets stronger. I wonder if the same thing might be happening in the emotional sphere. Maybe a certain amount of teasing and criticism by playmates and schoolmates is actually healthy and makes kids stronger. Bullying is real and I am glad that it is being addressed. But let’s not go overboard and try to completely insulate kids from all painful experiences. When a child is teased or picked on, they might learn aggression, but they might also learn empathy.
All of the great writers and artists suffered in one way or another. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. There is a connection between “having to struggle with something unpleasant” and “personal growth”. Maybe the best parents are the ones who screw up just the right amount – not too much, and not too little. In that sense, maybe you really WERE the perfect parent.
Ramona September 18th, 2014 at 09:23
Robert, it’s very likely that bullies learned to bully in their own homes. Parents bully their kids either by threatening violence or by carrying it out. There is no such thing, in my mind, as a “loving spanking”. As to you argument that all kids have to learn to suffer–really? At the hands of their own parents? It’s a cruel world out there. Kids learn that real fast. If there is one sanctuary for them, it should be in their own home.
Robert M. Snyder September 18th, 2014 at 13:57
“As to you argument that all kids have to learn to suffer–really? At the hands of their own parents? It’s a cruel world out there. Kids learn that real fast. If there is one sanctuary for them, it should be in their own home.”
What I am saying is this:
1. As a parent, you’re going to make lots of mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes will cause suffering. Like the time my wife accidentally slammed the car door on our toddler daughter’s fingers. That hurt way more than a spanking.
2. Any kid who is not locked in a bubble is going to occasionally experience pain as a consequence of their actions. Pain is essential. People who have Hansen’s disease (leprosy) and have lost the ability to feel pain are constantly injuring themselves.
3. I agree that the home should be a sanctuary – to a point. But kids need to learn that actions have consequences. If they haven’t learned it by the time they start primary school, they are in for a world of future self-inflicted pain. Parents who try to shield their kids from the consequences of their actions are not doing those kids a favor. They are setting them up for failure.
4. It is not accurate to equate spanking with bullying. That’s like equating surgery with stabbing simply because both involve cutting the skin. The intent of the surgeon is different than the intent of the stabber.
Ramona September 18th, 2014 at 09:15
Robert, we need to change the culture that prescribes hitting kids as a form of discipline. It’s not a matter of either/or–either you spank them or spoil them. There are other, better methods of disciplining them that have nothing to do with using physical intimidation or force. I don’t understand this need to defend spanking. There is no defense that I can see.
Carla Akins September 16th, 2014 at 22:03
I understand that many believe and feel that spanking may have its place or be appropriate in some circumstances but this what we know. Spanking a child, yes spanking (not beating) offers these benefits:
Increases aggression (over the initial infraction) both short and long term
Damages self-esteem
Creates anxiety and fear
Damages parental relationship
Increases distrust
Ineffective in changing behavior long term
Ineffective in creating desirable behavior
Increases furtive behavior and actual dishonesty
Damages mental health
Lowers IQ
Increases delinquency and criminal behavior
Spanking frequency before age 2 is significantly and positively associated with child behavior problems at school age. These findings are consistent with those reported in studies of children older than 2 years but extend these findings to children who are spanked beginning at a relatively early age. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/113/5/1321.full?sid=eab1ba81-fcac-4f60-af18-544fd27bfe0c
Despite American Academy of Pediatrics recommendations to the contrary, most parents in the United States approve of and have used CP as a form of child discipline. The current findings suggest that even minor forms of CP, such as spanking, increase risk for increased child aggressive behavior. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/5/e1057.full?sid=eab1ba81-fcac-4f60-af18-544fd27bfe0c
Sources:
http://umaine.edu/publications/4357e/
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/132/5/e1118.full?sid=eab1ba81-fcac-4f60-af18-544fd27bfe0c
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/08/16/why-shouldnt-you-spank-your-kids-heres-9-reasons/
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/132/2/e333.full?sid=2d49a165-706e-470b-b55b-a8365a4efad7
American Psychoanalytic Association Position Statement (this group includes: American Academy of Pediatrics / National Association of Social Workers / National Alliance of Pupil Services Organizations ) can be found here:
It is a worthwhile read.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/great-kids-great-parents/201008/spanking-and-other-physical-punishments-revisited
Ramona Grigg September 17th, 2014 at 00:07
Thank you, Carla, for adding so much to this discussion. These links are useful and I’ll keep them for later use. I’m sure I’ll be needing them!
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 05:09
It’s kind of a thing with me, I have trouble letting go on this topic. :-/
Ramona September 18th, 2014 at 09:24
Me, too. I’ve been fighting against this for many years and getting nowhere. Still, I’ll keep trying. There are kids out there who need us to be on their side.
Carla Akins September 18th, 2014 at 11:55
Did you see this today in HuffPo? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/18/adrian-peterson-corporal-punishment-science_n_5831962.html
Blogvader September 18th, 2014 at 12:02
I was spanked as a child, and if I were a parent, I’d spank mine. I credit as helping me become a better child and adult.
I also don’t think you can call spanking a logical equivalent to whipping, which is pretty obviously what AP did.
Carla Akins September 18th, 2014 at 13:48
You are free to believe whatever you choose. As a matter of fact HuffPo has an article directly on point for your views. You should read it because whether you chose to believe it or not, spanking is never good or effective. I know, because I felt just like you 15 years ago and I would have defended that point to my dying breath – but I was wrong. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/18/adrian-peterson-corporal-punishment-science_n_5831962.html
Blogvader September 18th, 2014 at 13:55
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 17:37
Okay, now let’s see the statistics for the effects of bitter divorce and parental substance abuse. What are the effects of seeing mom and dad constantly shouting and fighting, or frequently stoned? You’re worried about an occasional spanking by loving parents? Give me a break.
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 17:47
The point is that it’s unnecessary. I have no problem with forgiving the act when a well-intentioned or even frustrated parent swats their kid out of desperation.
However doing it anyway, ignoring the tremendous amount of data or worse, advocating its use it is intentional. That makes no sense to me as a parent and grandparent.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 18:22
You’re trying to micromanage other people’s parenting. We are talking about cultural differences. Just because it’s not your style, that doesn’t make it wrong.
Perhaps CP is unnecessary. But so are teen fashion magazines, makeup, tattoos, piercings, pocket knives, laser pointers, and many other things that can cause problems when used inappropriately. Giving a kid too many timeouts for minor transgressions could be harmful. Not letting kids play outside in the fresh air and sunshine could be harmful. Obsessively using antibacterial soap to wash your kid’s hands could be harmful. Constantly making remarks about your daughter’s figure could be harmful.
At some point you just have to trust parents to use their best judgment, within reason. I would never spank an infant or a toddler. I only spanked my son a few times. Usually he got a timeout or removal of privileges. But it really bugs me that you think you know better. I accept what the science says, but science also says that your Yugo is more polluting and less efficient than a Prius or public transportation. So why do you persist in driving it? Does it seem like I am micromanaging your transportation choices? Micromanagement. Think about it.
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 19:26
I never said anything about legislating anything. I said spanking is never beneficial. Please point out where I ever mentioned anything about getting the government involved – I am against people advocating a bad practice based on hocus pocus – I was spanked theory.
Cris Carter was right – parents got it wrong. The idea is to speak openly, have a dialogue and allow social pressure to affect change. I admit I have spanked my kids when they were little, I wished to molly I hadn’t. I’m man enough to admit I got it wrong. I don’t drive a Yugo and work hard to learn something new every day. It’s a damn sight better than feeling foolish a few years down the road about digging in my heels without considering a different perspective.
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 21:09
Someone else had pointed out that spanking is illegal in many other countries, so that was probably on my mind when I responded to your post. I stand corrected and I apologize for assuming that you wanted to legislate this. Knowing that you don’t actually makes me more willing to consider your viewpoint.
I don’t need to know the answer, but just a question to consider: Do you think that the spankings you gave your kids have resulted in any of the “benefits” you listed above (e.g. increased aggression, damaged self-esteem, etc)? And if you do, how can you be sure it was due to the spankings?
Goodness knows, there are TONS of factors in a kid’s life that can promote aggression and damage self-esteem. Teasing, bullying, watching violence on TV and in movies where the heroes often use violence to solve problems. It’s not as if your kids were raised in a petri dish. Even if your kids were totally messed up (which I’m sure they aren’t), how could you be so certain that it was due to a few spankings and not all of the other crap?
Sometimes it seems that the world is falling apart, and the most terrifying part is that we can’t control it. We desperately want to believe that we have control over things, like how our kids turn out. We want to believe that, if we do everything right, they will grow into happy, healthy adults who lead fulfilling lives. But kids who grow up in the same household often turn out to have dramatically different adult lives. I think a lot of it is due to biological differences, especially genetics. Some kids can endure tons of adversity and they turn out fine. Other kids turn out miserable despite having wonderful parents, teachers, and community. Of course, as parents, we want to control what we can in order to expose our kids to good influences and protect them from bad influences (i.e. things that might make them aggressive or damage their self esteem). But in the end, I think it’s managed chaos, and I don’t think there is any way to go back and say “Bob Snyder would have greater self-esteem today if only his teacher, Mrs. Henry, hadn’t spanked him that time he punched a girl in the stomach at recess.”.
Carla Akins September 17th, 2014 at 21:41
Thanks, that last sentence made me laugh. My kids are fine- grown and kids of their own. None is aggressive, but they lived through our divorce, the loss of grandparents and friends and bad genetics.
I failed to give them the best possible start in life, the one thing I could have controlled was how I parented and I didn’t, I simply reacted. I never beat them, or used any implement to strike them, but I perpetuated the cycle. Instead of using the opportunity to guide my children in learning how to assess the situation, consider how their actions impact others how to make better choices.
You’re right, they already have all those others things working against them – why would we want to make it any tougher?
Robert M. Snyder September 17th, 2014 at 22:17
“I failed to give them the best possible start in life…”
You and every other parent I have ever known! The thing is that most people start having kids when they’re in their twenties. They are working and/or studying long hours. They are learning how to manage a household, how to please a boss and get promoted, how to do their taxes and maybe caring for an aging parent or grandparent. They don’t have a lot of time to read all of the scientific literature about circumcision, spanking, antibiotics, vaccinations, bullying, etc. It’s like those insurance commercials used to say: “Life comes at you fast”. So you did what most people do – you trusted your instincts.
Fortunately, most kids are pretty resilient. As long as we avoid big mistakes, I think most kids will do fine, as yours and mine have.
I think it is also worth considering whether a certain amount of stress and pain is actually healthy for children. I know it sounds silly, but hear me out. Kids who grow up on farms have lower rates of asthma and allergies than kids who grow up in squeaky clean suburban homes. It turns out that when the developing immune system is confronted by a certain amount of crud, it learns how to deal with it and gets stronger. I wonder if the same thing might be happening in the emotional sphere. Maybe a certain amount of teasing and criticism by playmates and schoolmates is actually healthy and makes kids stronger. Bullying is real and I am glad that it is being addressed. But let’s not go overboard and try to completely insulate kids from all painful experiences. When a child is teased or picked on, they might learn aggression, but they might also learn empathy.
All of the great writers and artists suffered in one way or another. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. There is a connection between “having to struggle with something unpleasant” and “personal growth”. Maybe the best parents are the ones who screw up just the right amount – not too much, and not too little. In that sense, maybe you really WERE the perfect parent.
Ramona September 18th, 2014 at 09:23
Robert, it’s very likely that bullies learned to bully in their own homes. Parents bully their kids either by threatening violence or by carrying it out. There is no such thing, in my mind, as a “loving spanking”. As to you argument that all kids have to learn to suffer–really? At the hands of their own parents? It’s a cruel world out there. Kids learn that real fast. If there is one sanctuary for them, it should be in their own home.
Robert M. Snyder September 18th, 2014 at 13:57
“As to you argument that all kids have to learn to suffer–really? At the hands of their own parents? It’s a cruel world out there. Kids learn that real fast. If there is one sanctuary for them, it should be in their own home.”
What I am saying is this:
1. As a parent, you’re going to make lots of mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes will cause suffering. Like the time my wife accidentally slammed the car door on our toddler daughter’s fingers. That hurt way more than a spanking.
2. Any kid who is not locked in a bubble is going to occasionally experience pain as a consequence of their actions. Pain is essential. People who have Hansen’s disease (leprosy) and have lost the ability to feel pain are constantly injuring themselves.
3. I agree that the home should be a sanctuary – to a point. But kids need to learn that actions have consequences. If they haven’t learned it by the time they start primary school, they are in for a world of future self-inflicted pain. Parents who try to shield their kids from the consequences of their actions are not doing those kids a favor. They are setting them up for failure.
4. It is not accurate to equate spanking with bullying. That’s like equating surgery with stabbing simply because both involve cutting the skin. The intent of the surgeon is different than the intent of the stabber.
Ramona September 18th, 2014 at 09:15
Robert, we need to change the culture that prescribes hitting kids as a form of discipline. It’s not a matter of either/or–either you spank them or spoil them. There are other, better methods of disciplining them that have nothing to do with using physical intimidation or force. I don’t understand this need to defend spanking. There is no defense that I can see.
crash2parties September 17th, 2014 at 12:11
Um, did you look at the nations listed in that CNN article? Also, you might think about broadening your new sources, CNN has a bit of a bias reputation.
Here’s a more recent, more accurate assessment from wiki:
Currently 194 countries have ratified, accepted, or acceded to it (some with stated reservations or interpretations) including every member of the United Nations except Somalia, South Sudan and the United States.
androgyne anode September 19th, 2014 at 17:49
Yay child abuse!
/sarcasm
πΉπΆππΆπ½ βπΆπ β€ππΏ September 19th, 2014 at 17:49
Yay child abuse!
/sarcasm
Chinese Democracy September 20th, 2014 at 16:22
kids who are hit grow up to punch out fiances in elevators